What you'll learn
- The ins and outs of the evolution of conflict resolution strategies
- Key lessons learned
- Audience engagement through questions and shared stories
Transcription:
Sarah Evers (00:11):
So I'm sitting in my car, a direct report had asked to meet with me before our next team meeting, and I am nervous, and I don't mean a little bit anxious. I mean, cold sweat, heart racing, pass out or throw up nervous. The kind of nervous where I can't even think straight, has anyone been there before? So I'm sitting in the car, she wants to meet with me because she was bothered about something, but she was always bothered. She had a reputation for having these explosive outbursts, and everyone on the team knew what bothered her. So the fact that she asked for a special meeting to talk about something that bothered her, had me really nervous. It must be really bad. So there I am sitting in my car. I take a deep breath and I get up and walk towards the office, walk down the hallway, and I can picture her red-faced, irritated, agitated, aggressive, just ready to unload on me. But the most astonishing thing happened when I sat down. She didn't yell at me. She didn't release all of her anger all over me. It was quite the opposite. She was humble and vulnerable, and she talked about what it was like to have me as a leader, the hard things, the difficult things about me as a leader. And as she was vulnerable, something in me shifted. That conversation happened over 20 years ago and I have never been the same. That was a turning point in my life and in my leadership journey.
Ken Kinard (02:13):
That sounds like it had a big impact in your life.
Sarah Evers (02:18):
Yes.
Ken Kinard (02:19):
And what a piece of feedback. What a valuable piece of feedback that you got from a direct report. Very meaningful. Well, today we're going to be talking about conflict at work. You can almost feel a chill in the room. When I say conflict at work, I can see it on some of your faces and we get a little nervous about conflict at work. It just feels right. But the truth is there are skills that we can learn that will help us to make conflict a really successful opportunity. And we're going to be using feedback as a mechanism for doing that. And you'll see, I think as we work together today, we'll be doing some things at our tables and you've been learning some things together. In this workshop format. You'll see that the things, the skills that we learned through this feedback exercise will apply to other things that we do at work.
(03:17):
So all of us have already experienced feedback at work, and what's interesting about it is that we hesitate to give it because there might be some kind of emotional response, and yet it's going through that experience that is really where the valuable, valuable part is. So right now at your tables, you're going to get into groups of three or four. We're going to have you discuss a time with each other when you received a piece of critical feedback, what was that like for you? How did you receive it, and what lessons, if any, came from that interaction? So take a few minutes and do that now at your tables in groups of three or four.
Sarah Evers (07:09):
Those are some good stories of conflict, good stories of feedback.
Ken Kinard (07:17):
They're really getting into it, aren't they?
Sarah Evers (07:18):
Yeah. All right. We're going to wrap up those conversations. It's really good.
(07:34):
All right.
(07:42):
Okay, American Bankers, let's move forward. We wanted to start the conversation around conflict with feedback because so much of our conflict starts with feedback. We hesitate to deliver and being on the receiving end of feedback, it's just one place for potential conflict. How are we going to respond? How are we going to receive it? What are we going to do with it? Conflict is just part of the human condition. If you go through life with no conflict, I'm guessing you're not really plugged into the relationships around you. It's just a natural part of being human. We want to share with you a couple of situations with our clients in finance when they come to us with conflict.
Ken Kinard (08:36):
Well, there was the story of the director who was overlooked for promotion repeatedly, and then she later learned that she was told, well, you're just not alpha enough to be at the C-suite
Sarah Evers (08:49):
Or the infighting among teams about who's going to get credit for the deal.
Ken Kinard (08:55):
Or the person who said, well, it's really disheartening this culture around client entertainment. And how do you get in with the boss when you're not part of the old boys network?
Sarah Evers (09:06):
Well, what about that false dichotomy that many of us as women face? We're either the bully or the babushka, right? We either need to push people around and get aggressive and get in their face, or we're the caretaker cleaning up the mess and cleaning up everybody and taking care of them behind us.
Ken Kinard (09:24):
Or there's the person who reported a lack of alignment between the corporate vision and what she knew that her team could deliver.
Sarah Evers (09:34):
So those are some of the examples of conflict that some of our clients have experienced. But not all conflict is worth the energy it takes to discuss it or to debrief it. Some conflicts we think you can just ignore or brush off, but the ones that really matter, those are the ones we call high impact conversations.
Ken Kinard (09:56):
So how do you know it's time for a high impact conversation? Well, we think there's three things you could look at. First in a high impact conversation, you have opposing opinions. People don't agree with each other, they don't have the same perspective, or they don't have the same opinion about what's going on or what we should do. Second, it's high stakes. It really will affect the outcome, a big outcome for the results of the company or the client relationship or your relationship with this person. And then finally, some strong emotions, right? Sarah alluded to this before, an issue of disagreement can often spark an emotional reaction in the people that are involved. So those are the three things to look at.
Sarah Evers (10:43):
Conflict often arises out of the feedback that we hesitate to give. And so there's a worksheet on your table. We'd like to give you time on your own to work through these three elements. Think about an opportunity you have that's coming up to give feedback to a colleague or a direct report. We're going to give you a few moments on your own to work this out, and then we'll guide you into a discussion at your tables. If your table doesn't have any of the feedback forms, the worksheets, there are some extras in the back. So we'll go ahead and work on the worksheet on your own.
Ken Kinard (11:31):
Okay? If you haven't already, go ahead and discuss with two or three people at your table what you were working out in your worksheet. It's a chance for you to share what is an upcoming opportunity that you have to deliver critical feedback, and what did you learn by looking at it through these three items? Take some time to do that now at your tables. Okay, looks like a great discussion out there. Let's all come back together. Now, the great thing about queuing up this is we're going to use it a little bit later. So we're going to have some fun with it here in a little bit. But first, I'd like to talk about de-escalation in conflict.
(12:33):
So think about conflict for just a minute in this way. If there are three legs of the stool that make this conversation really conflict rich potentially, then what would it take to move it down a notch? What would deescalate it? Well, our model here gives us some real insight because it turns out that if it takes three of these legs of the stool to keep it up, only one is needed to break it down. So you could look at these same three elements and say, is it really true? Can we reduce or eliminate any of them? For example, look at opposing opinions. Maybe we disagree about this. Well, do we really disagree? Have we really gotten to the heart of that? Or maybe what parts of it do we agree on? Maybe we can start there.
Sarah Evers (13:25):
So in our example of our client who is having a hard time embracing the new corporate strategy, strategic direction, she could lead her team through a conversation to explore how far apart is our team's capacity from ramping up to the new strategic direction? Where might we be aligned and where might we really have differences?
Ken Kinard (13:48):
Another way to deescalate the conflict would be to look at the stakes. We say at the high stakes, right? Well, is there a way to lower the stakes? Is there any way we can modify the stakes or ease into them to deescalate the conflict?
Sarah Evers (14:04):
So with that same example, the team could have a conversation about perhaps they can set milestone goals to ramp up to the new corporate direction rather than diving right in. And that way they have an on-ramp that lowers the stakes for them.
Ken Kinard (14:21):
And finally, strong emotions. What are these emotions really about? Can we get to the heart of them? And what would change the emotions? What would allow a shift in how we feel about the situation?
Sarah Evers (14:34):
I think the team could have a conversation to explore what might be holding them back, what gives them pause or hesitation about the new strategic direction? What are those fears and concerns that are getting in the way? What could they do to embrace the new platform? And then they could explore what security do they need when all the fears are coming out and things seem to be changing so quickly.
Ken Kinard (15:05):
And then we have what we call the sudden firestorm. Has this ever happened to you? You're walking through the hall at work and you're talking to the colleague and everything's going well, and then all of a sudden an emotion erupts. It's like a sudden firestorm of emotion. You didn't see it coming.
Sarah Evers (15:24):
I've been blindsided before.
Ken Kinard (15:26):
I have too. So let's talk about what can you do if suddenly the conversation intensifies you and you realize you really have a big conflict on your hand? We think that there are three Es. That's how you can remember it. The three Es to handling a firestorm. First is empathy. You realize, Hey, wait a minute. The person is not the problem. This puts you into problem solving mode. Instead of solving the problem, step back from the emotion and say, what's going on with the person?
Sarah Evers (16:00):
I have to think, solve the problem, not the person.
Ken Kinard (16:03):
Yes.
Sarah Evers (16:04):
The person's, not the problem.
Ken Kinard (16:05):
So here you're making caring observations and you're asking questions and you're noticing what's going on with them.
Sarah Evers (16:10):
The second step there is the second ease to think about emotions. What are the emotions that are going on in this conversation? So get curious rather than stuffing, which is often my first response to the emotions. Let's just stuff 'em and power through. Give yourself permission to get curious What's coming up in you? What is the root of the emotion that's coming out? What emotions are you perceiving in the other person? So instead of judging or even responding to the emotional weather in the room, simply get curious to see what you can identify.
Ken Kinard (16:45):
And then finally, the third E is exit. Do you really have to do this right now? I mean, just because they're erupting with an emotion doesn't mean you have to stop what you're doing and have this conversation in the hall. Maybe we could do it another time or maybe we could do it in another place. Or maybe someone else really needs to be involved in this conversation. So by getting a little bit of distance from this firestorm, then we can approach this conflict with the care and attention that it really deserves.
Sarah Evers (17:16):
So earlier you used this worksheet to think about an upcoming opportunity. You have to give some feedback to somebody that might be praise, it might be criticism. It's probably challenging feedback that you have to deliver. But we think that there are two significant tensions to keep in balance here, to be able to have a productive conversation. We think you need to balance caring for the other person while being clear and direct with the conversation as you guide it. And we think a model can help you balance these two axes of caring personally and challenging directly.
Ken Kinard (17:54):
So let's take a look at this model. Caring personally is going up that vertical axis. The more you care, the higher you're going, and then challenge directly. The more you challenge directly, the farther to the right, you're going in this model. And that creates these four quadrants on the top left, ruinous empathy, you care about them, but not enough to really tell them what they need to hear. Not enough to really praise or really criticize. And so what you're left with, it's just this ruinous empathy. You're just nice. You don't want to hurt their feelings. Below that is manipulative, insincerity. And here's where you don't care about 'em and you're not willing to tell 'em really much of anything. And you're left with just kind of caring about yourself, which is kind of manipulative. Now to the right of that obnoxious aggression, this is where you don't care so much about them personally, but you really will challenge them directly. Have you had a boss like that? They're aggressive, they're domineering and get the work done, and they don't really care about how it's coming across. And so the result is just obnoxious aggression. What a jerk, right? And then finally, if you care personally to a great degree, we all want that boss and they challenge you directly, what do you have? You have this radically candid conversation where you're actually getting results, getting some improvement.
Sarah Evers (19:23):
Well, let's go back to my story that I opened with as a leader. I was on the left side of this model. I was not challenging people directly. On the one hand, I had a direct report who was exploding regularly with things that bothered her. And on the other hand, I had a team that just rolled their eyes at her. I was tolerating poor behavior. I wasn't pulling people aside or having a direct conversation about the culture we wanted on our team. So I was very far on the left side with challenging directly. Now, how did my direct report show up that day? I expected her to come in her usual approach with obnoxious aggression. I was gearing up, putting my armor on to receive her aggression, but that day she showed up differently. And I'm different because of that.
Ken Kinard (20:21):
So you might be thinking about yourself in this regard. How do you show up to these conversations when you're giving feedback to someone? Which quadrant do you find that conversation going into? And what does it take for you to balance these two things out? Maybe you need to amp up caring personally or amping up. You're courage to challenge directly. So let's look at the results. This is my favorite part because it turns out that our actions have consequences. If you have ruinous empathy or manipulative insincerity, you know what? People don't change. You've got ignorance, you have mistrust. But people aren't changing because you're not encouraging them by praising them for their great behavior. So they know what good looks like and you're not criticizing them.
Sarah Evers (21:12):
It's like the person with spinach in their teeth. We all have those salads today. We could either point out the spinach in somebody's tooth, but we might not because they might be uncomfortable. We don't know them very well. It would be kind of awkward. And so we shy away from speaking clearly and directly to them. So that would be the ruinous empathy. Oh, I feel bad for you. I'm not going to tell you the truth. But then there's the thing where they know they have something in their teeth and they're waiting for you to tell them and you're not telling them. That's kind of the manipulative and sincerity where we're not willing to risk the uncomfortable conversation. We know we might not see 'em again, it doesn't really matter. We're not going to take that risk to have that kind of a conversation.
Ken Kinard (21:55):
I love that example. Now, an obnoxious aggression. I mean, what's the good thing you can say about it? It does get some results. A little bit of change can come from this, and if you've experienced that, you've kind reluctantly changed from a boss like that, but you also feel kind of defensive and doesn't it ruin the relationship? And you really don't want to work with that person. So it's only with this combination of really caring personally and really challenging directly that we see the growth, the profound change that we're looking for in our organizations. These conversations can spark some real emotions. And it'd be interesting to just talk about what to do when those emotions come up in the context of this conversation.
Sarah Evers (22:42):
Yeah, so we talked about the three E of a sudden firestorm. Well, here are some phrases that you could use. You could say something like, my goal was to be helpful. It seems like I've missed the mark.
Ken Kinard (22:56):
Or I noticed there's some emotion coming up for you. What's that about? Tell me more. Or simply, how can I help?
Sarah Evers (23:05):
Or when would be a good time to finish this conversation? We don't always have to have the conversation in that moment. So when would be a good time to have this conversation? And if you're in person, you could get up and get them a bottle of water or a tissue if the emotions went that way. What we find is that just breaking the moment, breaking the tension and creating a little bit of space can help deflate the tension and help people get their emotions under control. Help them be ready to engage the thinking part of their brain so they're out of that fight or flight mode.
Ken Kinard (23:41):
And the thing to remember is that whether you're being radically candid with people or not is something that is in their ear, not in your mouth, right? They're the ones that know if you're doing it. So they will sort of let you know, alright, well it would be fun.
Sarah Evers (23:58):
I know everyone's going to love this part. We all love role plays, don't we?
Ken Kinard (24:02):
Exactly, exactly. Let's play with the feedback ideas that we came up with earlier, and let's do this at the tables. Now, the role play has three roles. This will be a group of three or four. So you might have more than one observer. The first role is the feedback giver. You're going to practice at your table giving the feedback that you're anticipating giving. The idea is to keep your words brief fact-based. Just focus on observable behavior. Don't try to judge someone else's motive.
Sarah Evers (24:31):
The second person is the feedback receiver. Now I am calling on all my over actors right now. This is your chance to play it up because let's be honest, the thing that often holds us back from having a difficult conversation with someone is because we're afraid they're going to have a strong reaction. So we have provided you with a list of six strong emotions, and you can choose one and lean into it with all your Tony Award-winning talent. Or you can go through all six of them. We want you to have fun with this. We really want you to play it up. We want the feedback giver to experience. I mean, in some ways experience your worst fears, because then reality is not so bad. But this is a fun and playful space. So overact, feedback, receivers.
Ken Kinard (25:23):
And the third and final role is the observer. Your job is to notice this interaction where the feedback is being sent and received. And you can actually track this feedback conversation on the chart. So where's this person on the caring personally? Are they caring a lot? Are they caring a little? How willing are they to challenge directly? Are they shying away and trying to play it safe? Or are they really saying directly what's going on? That's what you want to track. And we'll tell you when it's time to give your observations. Okay? So let the role play out until we tell you it's time to give your observations.
Sarah Evers (26:04):
Okay. So in your groups, pick somebody's feedback to be the feedback giver. If it's your piece of feedback that you want to give you, be the giver and we'll release you to your overacting scenes. Okay? Alright, let's come back together. Author and sociologist. Brene Brown said, clear is kind. She also said that vulnerability is the birthplace of innovation, creativity, and change. So if we're going to take a risk and help bring change, we need to be willing to risk vulnerability. All right, so let's debrief that as a group. How did that go? What did you notice about the interaction? We're going to do a large group debrief, and we do have a microphone. So observers, if one of you can stand up. We've got a microphone coming around. We'd love to hear. What did you notice? What did you learn?
Ken Kinard (27:21):
It's an observer. Oh, there's an observer right here.
Sarah Evers (27:24):
Oh, I think this front table voluntold.
Ken Kinard (27:32):
Alright, what did you observe? How did that go?
Audience Member 1 (27:36):
Well, it goes very well. She was in the candle square, so she was listening, asking for her opinion. So she gave her space to talk and give her feelings and share her feelings.
Sarah Evers (27:52):
So she gave her space to feel the feelings. How did it turn out? Did it resolve? Did it resolve? They did. It did resolve.
Audience Member 1 (27:59):
Yes.
Sarah Evers (28:00):
And what was it like to practice that? The feedback giver.
Audience Member 1 (28:04):
It was great. I mean, they were very comfortable. They were comfortable in the conversation. So that was the point. Practice. And in this area, yeah,
Sarah Evers (28:13):
It is free practice, right? Everybody wants to practice hard conversations, right? No, but we're creating space for it because practice is how we get better. Practice is how we grow. Thank you. Yes.
Audience Member 2 (28:27):
One thing I'd add is that I think it's important to acknowledge the feeling and the emotion that the person's having, but also help them get through it really quickly. Yes, we can solve for this. Let's just get there. What are the issues? And then I'm going to be your resource to help with that.
Sarah Evers (28:40):
Yes, yes. Great.
Ken Kinard (28:43):
Let's hear from someone else. Someone over here. Tell us about your experience. Which world did you have? Okay, tell us about your observation.
Audience Member 3 (28:55):
Yes, I was an observer. So we had a wonderful dialogue between, what would you say, a branch manager and a personal banker. So that's what they played. And I'll say Donna has had plenty of experience in this because she did wonderfully at just opening the conversation and letting Dalia talk about her day to day and what that looked like. And then she focused in on one item as to how can we solutionize that one item to kind of flip the narrative on how she was feeling. But she started very aggressive in her stance. She was doing all six and slowly between each of, I think your questions to her, she broke down the barriers and it opened up more and more of the conversation allowed you to talk and I think narrowed down kind of a solution to kind of path forward.
Ken Kinard (29:44):
Great.
Audience Member 3 (29:45):
Yeah. Donna was great. You guys.
Ken Kinard (29:47):
Great example.
Audience Member 3 (29:47):
Take notes from Donna.
Ken Kinard (29:48):
All very well done.
Audience Member 3 (29:49):
I was impressed. Well done.
Ken Kinard (29:50):
So I have a follow up. What was it like to experience that aggression on her part? I mean, how did you deal with that?
Audience Member 4 (29:58):
I don't take it as personal aggression, so I don't personalize any interaction I have with my employees. What I take it is, is that I want to get to a common goal. So I just focus on what the solution is going to be rather than the individual and what they're coming at me with. They're frustrated. So all I want to do is get past the frustration to the point of solution.
Ken Kinard (30:18):
Nice. Well done. Well done.
Sarah Evers (30:19):
Mindset matters. One more. Sure. Let's take one more. Let's take one more from the crowd. Thank you.
Ken Kinard (30:33):
There's a volunteer right over here.
Sarah Evers (30:34):
Behind the column.
Ken Kinard (30:37):
Okay. All right. Go ahead. Tell us which role you played.
Audience Member 5 (30:47):
I was the observer
Ken Kinard (30:48):
And how did it go?
Audience Member 5 (30:50):
Being an observer is great. So we discovered in our interaction that the most difficult role to respond to was dismissal or dismissive because there is no emotion. It's just thanks for your opinion, but no thanks, right? And so you had to keep, these were our two actors, but you had to keep pivoting. She had to keep pivoting back to trying to get Kathy to see herself from her perspective, which was a lot harder. You almost would've been better off if they just got angry or cried and she started out a little thanks for your feedback, whatever.
Ken Kinard (31:33):
That's great. So what I love about that is you realize with the dismissal, you're not going to get anywhere until you get through the dismissal. So in that case, the dismissal becomes the topic of the feedback. I want to talk about how we give and receive feedback now, and that becomes the conversation. If you don't have that conversation, you're not going to have the ability to get to the other conversation, which is the other feedback that she needs.
Audience Member 5 (32:01):
She just kept pivoting to trying to get Kathy to see herself and see herself in these interactions. And that we cut our time before we quite got to that pivotal moment, our conversation.
Ken Kinard (32:14):
Yeah. Did you get past the dismissal? Did you ever break through?
Audience Member 5 (32:18):
No. She was really good at dismissal.
Sarah Evers (32:23):
Yeah. Nice. Well, that was probably hopefully the hardest feedback delivery you'll experience might not be, but we hope it is.
Ken Kinard (32:32):
So here's a question for you that I want you to take away. Think about how is your team, how is your organization when it comes to these kind of conversations with these aggressive dismissal things that's not healthy? What's healthy is when we can be honest and direct and really care for each other. And when it comes to conflict, we know that the healthiest organizations are the ones that don't let the conflict fester. The distance between when a conflict is identified and when it's resolved is very short. And so you might think about your own situation. Are you letting any of those conflicts fester? That's where the damage comes in. What can you do to shorten that time and be more direct and caring sooner?
Sarah Evers (33:28):
On the back of your worksheet, we want to give you an opportunity to write down your action step. So write down the feedback you need to deliver perhaps a new idea occurred to you during our time together. Write down what you're willing to do to prepare for it, and also write down when you're going to do it. Give yourself a little bit of accountability. When will you deliver that feedback?
Ken Kinard (33:53):
So we'll give you a minute to write that down. Now on the back of your worksheet as we wrap up, this has been some great conversation and I really appreciate how you're digging into it. As we wrap up here, if you would like more on this topic, we've provided for you our conflict resolution guide, and there is a URL there that you can type in or a QR code. If you want to grab that QR code real quick, it'll take you to a place where you can download our conflict resolution guide. That might be helpful to you if you're dealing with conflict at work and you want to get better at this skill. So we would encourage you to do that. We're just scratching the surface, and I know that we've just unearthed some great questions on this topic,
Sarah Evers (34:41):
And we know those questions are coming up for you because someone just approached us with questions about how do you lead up when your boss isn't giving you the feedback that you want or the feedback they're giving you isn't accurate. And now there's a conflict created because you're disagreeing with the poor feedback they're giving you. And that's a more nuanced conversation. But the first two thoughts that Ken and I would share is be clear with your direct report, with your boss about the kind of feedback you're looking for. Ask one specific question as opposed to a very broad general question. And the other piece of encouragement we give you is to do your homework so that you come prepared with the numbers, with the data, with the proof that evidence of the work that you're doing. We're happy to have conversations. We'll be here today.
(35:30):
We'll be here tomorrow. We know conflict is part of work. Work is a four letter word, and sometimes the way we experience work and the way that we experience conflict is another four letter word or a couple more letters. So we appreciate that work can be difficult. We appreciate that. Conflict is difficult and perhaps many of you are similar to me with that terrible feeling in the pit of your stomach when you think about seeing somebody or having that difficult conversation. Conflict is real. It's a big deal. But these are skills that we can practice and we're here to help you on that journey. Thank you.