What you'll learn
- Why leadership matters when hiring and keeping the best people
- How to set high standards and make sure others follow them
- How it's different today
Transcription:
Mary de Wet (00:09):
Hi, welcome back. I'm Mary de Wet. I'm Managing Editor of American Banker, and I have the pleasure of hosting how leaders make or break the culture of a bank. And with me, I have three lovely ladies starting with Bridgit Chayt. She is Executive Vice President and Head of Treasury Management and Commercial Payments at Fifth Third Bank. Bridgit was instrumental in building fifth third's commercial payments division. Next to her is Jennifer Smith, who's also Executive Vice President, and she's Chief Technology and Operations Officer at Zion's Bank Corp. One of her many duties involved leading a multi-year project to replace Zion's core banking software. And then next to me here is Jeane Vidoni, who is President and CEO of Penn Community Bank. She leads a $2.9 billion mutual savings bank in a highly competitive market. So we're going to talk to these leaders today about how they instill a healthy culture in their institutions. So Jeane, I'd like to start with you. You've been CEO for about 10 years now, and I'd like to know how your leadership style has influenced the culture at the bank.
Jeane Vidoni (01:40):
Good morning, everybody. Well, I think one of the most important things that I've learned along the way is to really lean into my own personal style and characteristics and try and match those to the culture, mission, and core values of the bank that we are creating and bringing forward. I'm sure that many of your banks have those types of core value statements. I think one of the things that can occur often is that our behaviors and how we implement do not match actually what we're training others to do. So I have tried to be very, very consistent. And I would say that in addition to being a technical banker, I have spent a lot of time studying myself. It's not always fun and really trying to be authentic. I know that my team has said over the years that I'm the same person on Monday as Wednesday, same person Wednesday to Friday. And trust is built on consistent behavior over time. And so I think matching with the values, the brand and then really behaving in that manner can make a difference and allow people to develop and grow. So I'll stop there.
Mary de Wet (02:58):
Okay, that's great. Thank you. Bridgit, you've been leading innovation at Fifth Third and positioning it for the future. Could you tell us about how your leadership style has helped you achieve this?
Bridgit Chayt (03:11):
Well, in some banks, and for quite some time in the past, innovation in banking could seem like an oxymoron because everything was pretty tried and true and a lot of policy and procedure. I'm fortunate that I work in an organization that really strives to bring innovation throughout its full culture, but it's really important for me as a leader to make sure that I'm approachable. And Kristen, that's not about sitting on the couch. I know it's about also how you approach folks to make sure that they're really open to talking to you about what's going on in their head, what ideas they might have, what they might see. That's wrong because across all industries, more than 40% of all new products fail. And that's okay. That's how we find new things that are really exciting and change lives, but it's not okay in most bank cultures. So leading with that approachability and making sure that people know that it is safe to fail fast and fail fully is very important for me and a sense of humor. I find that when people laugh, they come back with their best ideas.
Mary de Wet (04:22):
Yes, that's true. And Jennifer, that software migration project was a monumental task and it affected all aspects of Zions. Could you tell us how your leadership style enabled you to get everyone on board and then to complete the project?
Jennifer Smith (04:39):
I may need the microphone.
(04:39):
Oh, thank you.
Mary de Wet (04:43):
Oh, sorry. I thought we had one for you. So sorry.
Jennifer Smith (04:46):
Oh, I'll grab it in just a moment. Thank you for the question. And it's a great pleasure to be on this panel with Jeane and with Bridgit. What I maybe answer that question a little bit more broadly. In my role as head of technology and operations, I've oversee a few thousand employees in our organization, and I've been in my role for nine years, which is a long time to be in a CIO type of role. And it's the consistency, whether it relates to a major core transformation project, it's the same tools and practices deployed in other areas. And for me, the leadership attribute that likely impacts our culture is a deep belief in the capacity of people. And how do I unleash that capacity? How do I support people being the very best that they can be? And then having that expectation of the leaders with whom I work so that after many years, I know that if I were to leave the organization or move on to a different role, that culture would be sustained within our company.
Mary de Wet (06:13):
Yeah, wait, wait. Maybe keep the microphone or get there sitting on it.
Jennifer Smith (06:25):
Okay. This is fun.
Mary de Wet (06:28):
This is fun. It's called Find the microphone. .
Jennifer Smith (06:32):
Oh, all the way in the back here.
Mary de Wet (06:34):
Why don't we just share, share. Okay.
Jennifer Smith (06:35):
That's a little awkward.
Mary de Wet (06:36):
So sorry.
Jennifer Smith (06:37):
It's okay.
Mary de Wet (06:39):
We can collaborate. But I wanted to follow up with you, Jennifer. Can you give us a specific example of how you had a challenge that you had to deal with and how you were able to, you were talking about bring everyone together on it.
Jennifer Smith (06:55):
Yeah. You'd probably go back a few years and I'll go back before to a time and we'll talk about our core transformation project. And it was probably in the year 2017. And so it was a long journey. There's a sustainability that we had to tackle and we were at a low point in the execution of the project. We were learning so much, but it was hard. It was really hard work. And so there was a lot of leadership changes that required that I needed to make changed out. Most of the leadership team, and I can say in my opinion, the leaders who were there weren't focused as much on believing in the capacity of everybody on that team to solve problems. And so there was a period of time where I had to, for a good 12 months, spend most of my time on this initiative and really tapping into what could all of the great people who were on that team deliver. And they did an extraordinary job of delivering, but believing in which is risky because sometimes people can disappoint if you've got 'em in the wrong roles. And believing in them and being patient and understanding what their capabilities were and inviting everyone in to solve problems, it helped us be a lot more successful.
Mary de Wet (08:46):
Okay, thank you. And that kind of segues into what I wanted to talk about next, which was how important leadership is in terms of hiring and firing people and knowing the qualities of the people that you had. Bridgit had told me about wartime and peace time leaders. Could you tell me a little bit more about that?
Bridgit Chayt (09:06):
This had started off a conversation that I noticed over the past couple of years that we were losing some of the gains we had for women in the industry in leadership roles. And some of the commentary around it would be that we were facing highly disruptive times or there was stress in the industry. And so some non-female leader was coming in to take over. And it really bothered me, I thought, what is it that is somehow communicated that women are better peacetime leaders than wartime, and we all know we're great, get it done leaders. And I do think that that's an area where we need to be more proactive about being in front of what the disruption is and coming forward with our plans to how we're going to counter that and turn it into opportunities. And so when I'm looking at hiring individuals on the team, I really do concentrate a lot about how they operate under times of disruption and what ideas and how they look at things and how they can pivot to things rather than just keeping the trains running on time on it. And I do think that it's shortsighted others in the industry to think that that's not a quality that females carry. I don't know what any of the other panelists think.
Jeane Vidoni (10:34):
Go ahead, yeah. Yes, I have seen that. Although I do see it with both genders and I kind of see, or more than both genders, I do see that being able to deal with conflict and difficult situations and navigating through difficult times takes a certain kind of grit and persistence. And as Jennifer was saying earlier about the core values of how they approach their business, and during a very difficult project, you had to make some changes because some of the team wasn't able to do that. I would just go back again and say most likely that's because of those team members could not control themselves, regulate themselves under stress and maybe lost their way. And then it affects other people. And so I have an example at my organization where I had an executive who was in commercial lending. I think we know how all that is so important.
(11:36):
Chief lender, and for 10 years in a row in a row met quantitative goals. So 10 years in a row, always met commercial lending growth goals. And over those years was creating such havoc among the teams, credit analysts, other lenders wasn't adhering or following or buying into the strategic plan. And some of the changes there, but would always make the number. And also we take care when we deal with people, it's an important thing. We try to understand, develop. So we did coaching, we did counseling, we gave time, and I realized, how long am I going to do this? I could be retired without seeing any kind of change, but it took a lot of courage for me to explain and talk to the directors, the board about how would you let a person go who is a core revenue generator of the bank? And I will tell you, they supported me.
(12:45):
I was nervous about it. I thought, okay, year 11, I'm not going to make the goal. And it didn't work out that way. And not only didn't it work out that way, it was like we turned the lights on in the bank. And so many people commented over time how much more enjoyable work was how they could do their work. And it was basically the person didn't have the ability to see other, when we get caught up in our goals and ourselves, no capacity of what was going on around. So that's my example of you got to know when, right? It's the wisdom of knowing the difference and taking action when you need to.
Mary de Wet (13:27):
Right. Yeah. I think I've got a microphone for Jennifer now. So wait, wait. Here we go.
Jennifer Smith (13:34):
Yay. Thank you.
Mary de Wet (13:37):
Okay. Jennifer, you had a really great story too about taking in a new executive who had come in from a very different culture and getting them on board. Could you tell us more about that?
Jennifer Smith (13:50):
Yeah. Recently I brought on a new leader to my team who is an industry leading expert in AI technology, modern development practices. Really an important skill that we brought on to our organization really, and some fantastic industry experience. And she comes from an environment that is a, well, first off, there's this book called The Culture Map by Erin Meyers, and some of you may know it, but it looks at a continuum of how different cultures, global cultures, how they are persuasive, how they're communicate, how they evaluate, how they look at feedback. And in that continuum, there's a variety of different approaches across the globe. So I offer that to share. Everybody brings a different type of culture experience. And it's true in the United States, there's a wide continuum of where we learn the regions, where we grow up at, and they all have value. So coming into a culture that in our organization is we are known for being nice and we are known for harmony, and that's not always great, but we really, we've had, have had good results with those approaches.
(15:47):
And so this coming from a culture that's much more direct blunt and coming into a culture that's different. And so I was aware that was the situation coming in, and sure enough, the bluntness, the directness that sometimes rubbed some people the wrong way. And what's important in these situations is in the evaluation is looking at as their shared values, do we believe in the capabilities of people? Therefore the answer's yes, then I can approach how that happens differently. And then you actually start to see the beauty of differences coming together and we're learning from one another. It's these situations though, when people say they're not a good cultural fit red flag, because oftentimes that means you're hiring people who are like you and have life experiences who are like you or have, and you can read all sorts of things into it. So I think saying cultural fit in the hiring practice, we have to go much deeper.
Mary de Wet (17:14):
Yes. Thank you for that. Yes, you are all smart women with lots of really good ideas. And I was just wondering, it can be difficult to sometimes implement those ideas with the organization to get everybody on board and see your vision. And I was wondering how do you set high standards and then ensure that everybody kind of follows along? And anyone want to start with that one?
Jeane Vidoni (17:41):
I'll go, okay.
(17:42):
Yeah. So it's actually, I think it's opposite of what you might think because I actually, I have this saying about turning yourself inside out or doing business backwards. So I start with what I don't know. So if I have an idea or a vision, I can express it, but I do it in a way that leaves the doors open for building upon it or disagreeing with it. Because again, this culture talk can be a little interesting when we get to, you don't want a Stepford wife approach to how we make decisions, how we approve ideas. And it goes so much beyond ROI as we get around a table. So I would say I do bring a lot of energy and I encourage others to bring ideas to the table. And we really vet those in a pretty open pros and cons. And as there's all kinds of styles, you need someone in the room who sees all the risks. You need someone in the room who sees all the opportunities and then the technical expert. And that's really the fun part and the beauty, and I think what you were saying, Jennifer, about bringing those different styles, different thinking processes to the table makes for the best outcome. And over time when you do implement ideas, and some of them, not all of them are successful, how you react when they're not, it fuels on itself the energy around being able to come up with new ideas.
Bridgit Chayt (19:16):
No, I agree. I think also celebrating the mile markers. So for example, as we were putting together a different kind of commercial payments business, one of the goals was not just the financial one, but it was to say, how can we make this part of the story to the street? How can we make what we do as a team important to analysts and those who in invest in the bank? And so we came just up with just an interesting kind of metric. As we would listen to the earnings call as a team, we would start to give the over and under on how many times they would mention treasury management or commercial payments. And it was this energy in the room, and there's a couple of folks who are in this room as you put the little ticky marks on the board as it was happening and a fun thing to do, but a point of pride. But it was also connecting everybody to the bigger picture of what it was that we were actually doing and seeing it fulfilled. And it's just one of those mile marker celebrations that I think keeps people going, you know what? This idea does have legs. It's happening. And we feel it in ways other than the monthly financials.
Jennifer Smith (20:29):
Many of you who are in senior roles have a good understanding of how to take vision and implement it into your culture. I won't spend a lot of time on that, but on where you are at in your career, what you can always do to make an impact is to be a cultural amplifier. Lemme give you an example. So our Zion's core banking teams being recognized as one of the most powerful teams. So congratulations team. But I want to share one of the examples of the leader who came into that to lead that team day in and day out. When I was making these changes, she recognized that innovation was something we talked about all of the time in our organization. And so what she did, of course every day she talked about it, but it's like, how do I amplify this outside of my day-to-day responsibilities?
(21:38):
So what she did is she created, she created what we call innovation week and a banking of the future form that a few years ago now, our premier event that includes our hackathon every year we bring in key partners, we showcase our key accomplishments and innovations that have occurred. And she, she's here today, she is a culture amplifier, and it's why she continues to be successful and keep climbing the ladder. So I'd encourage all of you to think about what are those cultural indicators you're hearing in your organization that are outside of your day-to-day job that you can amplify because it's your strength.
Mary de Wet (22:31):
That's a great idea. Thank you. That kind of fits into how do you steer growth in your culture as well, right? Because you've got a vision and you're bringing people forward, but the culture has been, the bank may have been there for a very long time and they're like, well, that's not how we do things. We've been here for 200 years or something, and therefore this is us. How do you get around that sort of, or have you even encountered any of that kind of resistance as you've progressed?
Jeane Vidoni (23:05):
Well, I think there's an absolute just human resistance to change. It brings up all kinds of discomfort. So whether you're a new company or an old company, I think that's always occurring. Again, I think it has to do with how you encourage and patience, which is not one of my greatest virtues, but patience, keep going back over it again. Keep going back over it again.
Bridgit Chayt (23:35):
I think a culture whose definition isn't growing, if the boundaries aren't moving out, that's not a culture, that's a legacy, that's a habit. And you do have to hold yourself accountable to making sure that what a culture is doing is that it's fluid and that it is adapting in ways that make it more relevant to the people whom we serve, whether it's our employees, our shareholders, and of course our customers on that. So it's one of the things that we kind of hold ourselves to is if you're in that room and somebody tells you something, an idea that's brought forward or a change, and you say, ah, we did that 2012, nah, no, didn't work. That's that little voice in your head that says, I've been doing what I've been doing too long, and it's time for me to move to something else and let someone in, because then your culture is actually a blocker.
Jennifer Smith (24:32):
Wow. Yeah. Can you all imagine working in the culture of your organizations from 40 years ago? You probably can't because you may not be able to have a job because women in the eighties, or at least even go back to 1974 when we were just allowed 50, not even 50 years ago or nearly 50 years ago, to open up bank accounts or apply for credit. Many banks let us do that beforehand, but that's when it legally became required. So cultural change in these organizations, I think many of us come from organizations that are a century old, and where are they coming from? Where are those ideas around progressing culture? Well, they're coming from all of us and all of you who are sitting in this room who know that you can operate within a culture, but you can also advance it to be relevant for the future. And so I think each of us have a responsibility to honor the legacy, honor, what has been accomplished. But if we want our organizations to be relevant for the next 50 years, it's up to us to make those changes.
Bridgit Chayt (26:02):
I agree. And I always think about, we talk in ways that say old a bank that's been 167 years old, and why don't we say it's 167 years young that that's the shift that we need to be making?
Jeane Vidoni (26:19):
Made me think about, remember when you couldn't wear pants and we all were given these little logos, silk bow things that you tied around your neck, MBA bows. That was when perms were in too. You should go back and try to find some pictures. But yeah, we have come a long way. And you're right, the change is driven from within and from all of you, and now you're changing us, which is awesome.
Mary de Wet (26:46):
Yeah. Great. Alright, then I guess I'd like to just ask, what have you learned over your time as a leader in a bank and what you've seen? Is there any sort of lesson you'd like to pass on to the next generation that's here? It's a stumper.
Jennifer Smith (27:10):
Yeah. No, it's a really good question around what we've all learned. I think the biggest learning for me was coming into my career feeling like I had to do it all. I had to know everything and to be successful. And so that resulted in a lot of research on my own to understand acronyms, to understand how the balance sheet worked. A lot of carrying that. And what I know now is that there are a lot of people around us who want us to be successful. And when I came into my career, I didn't necessarily feel that it may have been still true, but what I would encourage the lesson I've learned, and I would encourage all of you to tap into, we've heard this discussion about the investment in your network. We want one another to be successful. And I think even though we sometimes hear that women aren't supportive of women, that's like 10% of the cases. So most often we all want one another to be successful, and that's something we can tap, we can tap into. That's my biggest learning over my career is there are a lot of people who want to walk with us arm in arm.
Bridgit Chayt (28:49):
I learned pretty early on what was the right types of paths or habits or behaviors that could help lead people to get to the outcome that you needed, your organization needed or that your work needed. There were a couple of things that happened over my career that I understood that it was really successful if I actually was able to lead people to feel extremely good about what it was that they brought to that outcome and what it did for them for the next thing that they did. And often, especially in finance, it can be all about the scorecard, the financials or the numbers, but really about what's the next empowerment that you have helped create for an individual through that. And I think that's when I felt that I matured more as a leader.
Jeane Vidoni (29:44):
I would say, take your succession plan very seriously. No matter what job you're in, I would say have the courage to develop your successor. I have gotten more than a few promotions over my career because they said, oh, well, we can send her to go do that because there's someone there ready. And that I think is really, really key. And in the same tone, I would say as you move up the ladder and leadership, it's really prepared to disappear. And that comes to the sustainability so of the culture and of the company, they're all bigger than we are as individuals. That's saying everybody's replaceable. That should be true. And so I would say just a lot of courage and look into yourself and also raise your hand, because I know in my bank over a third of the team members are what we call retirement eligible. And so if you're someone who's not, look around and set your sights on what you might want to do and start talking about that. So
Mary de Wet (30:55):
Yes, that's good. Yeah, about finding a successor though. I mean, because you don't want a mini me, right? Because then there's no growth, right? Yeah. So what are you looking for when you're looking at people to succeed you? I mean, you trying to find,
Jeane Vidoni (31:15):
Yeah. From my perspective, I'm just giving you my experience. I had a resume come in from a woman who probably knew double what I knew for my job. It was in product management. And people around me were saying, you can't bring her in. She could do your job. And she was moving geographically with her family. And I said, sounds good to me. And it made my job easier. It wasn't about mirroring my personal style. I was looking for the company to get skillsets. And as I look at my succession plan for a future CEO, we are building core values, core characteristics that are meaningful, whether there's a recession, whether it's war time or peace time, it's not about how can we get someone like that CEO. And I think that's important.
Mary de Wet (32:11):
Yeah. Do either Bridgit, do you or Jennifer have succession plans, or are you grooming people?
Bridgit Chayt (32:17):
Oh, no, absolutely.
Mary de Wet (32:19):
But what does your plan, or what does your program look like for that?
Bridgit Chayt (32:22):
Well, one is, as you identify individuals that you think have that potential, you don't go store them in a shoebox in the closet for the big day that you're going to wear 'em, right? You have to get the souls a little scuffy out there and get the right exposure, the visibility, the opportunities to show others in the organization. That is the strong succession opportunity. And that's, I think, really important. It's okay to say it out loud, who that is with others in the organization that can become advocates for them and make sure they get that exposure to them. But I do think it's making sure that the really good shoes just aren't in a box in the closet.
Mary de Wet (33:10):
That's good. How about you, Jennifer?
Jennifer Smith (33:12):
Yeah. What's interesting about, so most companies go through a succession planning process. And as many of you think about how do I become a successor for a certain role, what I find is it's really important to know who the stakeholders are in making that decision. For my role, probably there's half a dozen stakeholders who make that decision. It is not just my bosses. It's not just the CEO, it's our board. It's others that will make that decision. And so know who those people are, and this is true for many positions. And then have a sense for what it is that he or she might be looking for. And then the other piece, because I actually think what gets written on paper and succession planning, that only happens 50% of the time.
(34:15):
It's not like a guaranteed map. It can feel really great to know you're on a succession plan, but you need to make sure you really are a viable candidate on that succession plan. And so having conversations with a few of those stakeholders to say, Hey, if this opportunity came up today, what reservations would you have about me being in that position? Because it may not yet be on your career development plan. There's some things that just don't get articulated well enough. And so I would ask, what are those things? So you can further enhance your own development plan so you're ready when that position becomes available.
Mary de Wet (35:05):
Excellent. Yeah, that's good advice. And also, I guess trying to find opportunities for yourself so that you can meet your future goals, but also for the people underneath you to find opportunities to let them stretch.
Bridgit Chayt (35:21):
I have a January 1st kind of tradition. I re-interview myself for the job that I have that day on January 1st to say, if it were open today, would I still be the individual that they would choose? And oftentimes, no, it might not be because I have a blind spot here, or it's moved over into another area for whether it's enterprise growth or where the industry's going, or where the people with whom I'm working are different. And I look to try and make those adjustments, but I think that also helps me think about what the next thing might be.
Jennifer Smith (35:59):
Bridgit. I love that self-reflection, a fantastic way to set goals.
Mary de Wet (36:04):
Yeah. That's great. Okay. Well, I think we've got it. Unless anybody has any last thoughts, I think we're done. But thank you so much for everyone. I really appreciate it.