What you'll learn
- How Chase for Business' new product innovations (Invoicing, Faster Payments, Customer Insights, etc.) help small business owners overcome some of their biggest pain points.
- The role customer needs and feedback play in the creation and evolution of Chase for Business financial tools and resources.
- The commitment Chase has made to partnering with local business owners to help them start, run and grow their businesses.
Transcription:
Stu Richards (00:10):
My name's Stu Richards, and I'm the CEO of Bredin. For those of you who aren't familiar with Bredin, we are a B2B market research firm that helps clients understand and engage with the small business segment. So we do two kinds of research. It's either custom research that's designed to support our clients in understanding the needs of small business owners. So it might be to help with the development of market strategy, a product strategy of user experience, or even pricing. And we conduct research to help our clients to engage business owners. So for example, we might conduct a survey and use the data for a content marketing program or a PR program or a social media campaign or even to support sales collateral. But what I wanted to do is introduce our featured expert, John Frerichs And John, what I'd love to do is have you introduce yourself and your business unit and your role at Chase. Yeah,
John Frerichs (01:13):
Absolutely. Thanks for having me here. Look forward to the conversation. You'll be tough to keep up with. And I'm not sure I have the illustrative history that you do, but a bit about me to kick it off. So I am technically the Head of our Global SMB Payments unit at JP Morgan Chase. I have the luxury of sitting in between two lines of business. So we have our Chase franchise, which I think is fairly well known, and we'll talk about the Chase for business franchise here in a second. I report into that part of the business and then also into our, what we call CIB, our wholesale payments unit. I'm sure there are other folks in the room who have the pleasure of dual reporting. It's always a challenge, but I think it's how we bring our assets to bear in the best way possible. Personally, I have been in and around small business and small business payments for over 10 years now, and I've had the luxury of doing it from a few different angles. I've been in a strategy function, a finance function, a product function, and now more of a general management function. So what have I missed? I guess I haven't been an engineer or a marketer yet, so I have some more learning to go, but hopefully I can answer questions in a very well-rounded way given my background.
Stu Richards (02:24):
That's great, thank you. So what I wanted to do is start out with, given your role and the data that is available to you with the Merchant Services group, if you could just talk about the trends that you're seeing really in a couple areas. John. One would be what you're seeing in terms of the evolution of payment types, and another would be how you're seeing different segments sharing in terms of the payments that you're seeing to, for example, retailers versus other kinds of merchants that you're servicing.
John Frerichs (02:57):
Absolutely tons to share here. So I'll start and then I think we'll have time for q and a at the end. So if people are seeing different trends or have questions around our trends, happy to add more color to it. Let me start from the top. So we kind of think of, I'll hit bank payments, then I'll hit merchant services, and then I'll hit sort of the volume trends. I think there are interesting things happening in all three from a bank payments, but where the obvious statement, huge secular trend over the last 10 years away from cash and check towards electronic forms of payment. So that means more people using P2P, more people using electronic funds transfer. That's, I'm not telling you all anything you don't already know. Taking it one step further in, I think there have been some interesting things that have happened within bank payments.
(03:43):
PayPal sort of invented the space of P2P bought Venmo, which is a great acquisition and has scaled nicely, but we really have seen Zelle over the past three or four years and one of my colleagues I think is speaking later today, and she was a big part of this growth take off. So even if it's not the new innovative brand necessarily that Venmo might consider itself, the scale of Zelle has really come to play over the last three or four years. So that's been a big advantage for the banks that brought that to bear through the EWS construct. Next up, within electronic funds transfer after years and years of a lack of innovation, a couple cool things have happened probably in the last three or four years. So we've seen sort of the traditional ACH, which might take two to four years to clear move to same day and now to real time.
(04:32):
So there are different people building those rails, but we have seen customers increasingly expect to not have to be checking their bank account, did this clear what happens over the weekend? Is something going to, am I going to miss my bill pay or something? Now it is like you hit send or you hit request and hopefully it's same day if not real time, different price points, different fraud vectors, et cetera. But really customers have increased their expectations of us as financial institutions, as they always should, and we have delivered against it. We have seen to throw some interesting stats out there, amazing growth in those real, real time or same day construct. So I think the stat that we're allowed to share is we've seen 67% year over year growth in those two faster payment type constructs. So clearly customers are telling us that that is a useful tool for them to have and a useful tool for us to offer.
(05:27):
So nice uptake there. On the merchant side, some interesting things that we have seen over the COVID was a crazy circumstance, but let me break it into card present and card not present from the card, not present perspective, huge spike during COVID and a lot of innovation around it. So we kind of had a trend line of card not present growing here, card present growing here, and then IT hockey sticked for a bit. Interestingly, it's come back down. So at hockey stick then it came back, it's still growing faster than card present payments, but no longer at the rate that it was in 2020 and 2021 from a competitive landscape. PayPal used to dominate the space, sort of it was known as the original online e-commerce, checkout wallet, Apple Pay and Google Pay have done a very nice job over the last three or four years capturing some share there.
(06:16):
So increasingly our merchants expect multiple forms of digital wallets to be accessible when paying online. From a card present perspective, there've been a lot of new innovations that I think are fun and exciting. Omnichannel is a big thing. So like the line between offline, online and omnichannel, somewhere in between is blurring. And we've been very proud about bringing some use cases like tap to pay on iPhone. People have probably seen it. Hopefully you all have used it. We launched it last year. Our customers have loved it. It's just a very simple use case to onboard, get up and running, and it's very convenient where a customer can just tap their credit card on an iPhone, which I think 80% ish of our customer base has and on their way. So those have been some pretty exciting trends that we've seen within the merchant services realm.
(07:04):
Also worth noting is if you think about how small businesses get their payments or find a payments provider, increasingly it is less through a salesperson who might be walking into the store and it is through software. It might be their accounting provider, their point of sale software, their scheduling software. We call those ISVs independent software vendors. So these ISVs have done a great job creating small business relationships and they include payments as part of their value proposition. So that's a big trend that's taken off over the last two or three years as well on the volume standpoint. And then I'll stop. I know I have a lot to share, but we'll answer some questions in a second.
(07:49):
Very interesting trends in what's happening in volume. So everything roared coming out of the pandemic. So in 2020, I think we all know the economy shut down. Commerce across the board was down 2021, whether you were small, mid or large, payment volume was just like double digit growth. Everything was fantastic. Over the last 18 months, we've seen an interesting trend where there has been a real bifurcation between the growth within large enterprise, which has been fairly consistent, middle market, which has leveled off, and then small business, which has really leveled off. So really we have seen large enterprise outperform small business underperform over the last 18 months. Now we can debate all day. Is that secular trends or is that macro trends? Will it reverse? The honest answer is none of us know. If we were macro economist, we probably wouldn't be in this room.
(08:41):
But that is something that we've sort of struggled with. What does this mean? Is this going to revert our personal opinion or I guess my personal opinion is that it will, but we have seen small businesses be hit a little bit harder. More recently. The sentiment for small businesses according to what we hear is still, let's call it cautiously optimistic. I think you have to be optimistic. If you're a small business owner or you're an entrepreneur, how else are you going to get started? So that is there, but we are seeing 50% plus of small businesses say that they have less cash on hand than they did 12 months ago. So maybe it's stimulus payments, maybe it's something else, but there is a little bit more of a strain on small businesses than there may have been in the 2022, 2021 timeframe. We love, we care for all of our small businesses, so we watch these things very closely. We are hoping the sentiment picks up, the optimism picks up, the balances pick up and the volumes pick up, but that's sort of the state of play for the last 18 months or so. Yeah,
Stu Richards (09:41):
Yeah, yeah. It's hard to compete with Amazon.
John Frerichs (09:44):
It is, and I'll give my little plug, hopefully you all probably are all care about small businesses, otherwise we wouldn't be here, but we should all do our best to support small businesses. It is sort of the bedrock of our economy. It's the bedrock of the American dream. I'm all for Amazon. I probably even own some stock somewhere, but I try to do my best and I think we all should too, have tried to find that local small business owner who is trying to make their mark through competing probably mostly offline, but online as well with artisan goods or whatever their specialty is. I think that's a big part of who we are.
Stu Richards (10:18):
You raise a really interesting point. So how does Chase collectively either empower directly to sales team or your ISV partners to educate merchants on the really bewildering variety of options they have even in the POS world, every day there's some new innovation that's coming out and for a lot of merchants to understand what do they need to accept, what are the best options for them to accept payments? How do you counsel merchants on what the best solution is for them?
John Frerichs (10:51):
Yeah, great question and hopefully as we get to q and a later and would love to hear from other folks what they're learning as well. But we'll get to, I think we're going to talk about customer research in a bit, so I won't jump the gun, but one of the things that we try to do on behalf of our small businesses is save them time. If you ask a small business owner what their most precious commodity is, a large portion of them are going to say time even more than money, which is kind of a crazy thing to say, but has been consistently true as we've talked to small business owners over the last 5, 10, 15 years. So how do we save them time? We try to have them come to a trusted name and we would hopefully consider Chase or JP Morgan Chase a trusted name, and they can come to us and get as many bank or bank adjacent products and services as possible through a single provider.
(11:36):
That means you onboard once, you only have one business relationship manager, you have one bank branch, you get one set of emails that covers as many of your needs as we can. So that's hopefully banking credit payments. Increasingly, we have value added services. My colleague Jessica Young who's here, talked about our partnership with Gusto that we're very excited about. So we are trying to help small business owners navigate this complex ecosystem by providing bundle isn't necessarily the right words because people can choose whether they want to use them or not, but we're trying to make that customer lifecycle of advancing throughout different product sets as easy as possible. Even going as far as within the ISV space, there are, geez, probably millions of ISVs out there that they could use. We are trying to provide a small subset of ISVs that we personally know have personally screened. We think that they are a trusted provider who lives up to our standards of safety, security, reliability, and then we will put those names in front of our customers. But it is a very small subset. We truly believe in choice, but too much choice can almost be a bad thing. So we're trying to help our small business owners as much as possible find cost efficient options quickly, and that's one of the value propositions that we want to bring to bear.
Stu Richards (12:57):
Yeah, yeah, no, that's great. It's such a service to help educate them on what their options are and how to take advantage of them. You mentioned research. How do you stay current on merchant needs and preferences?
John Frerichs (13:12):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I can geek out a little bit here, so I'll try to be pithy in my answer, but I really love talking to small business owners. I have a couple of my teammates here. I think we all do. So let me go back in time to really, when I started down this small business path at JP Morgan back in 2015, we had a small business banking franchise. It was an area that we wanted to grow further. We had the luxury of actually having Clayton Christensen folks know him. He passed away I think within the previous few years, but he is the inventor of the innovator's Dilemma, and I think he got very famous for that. We actually had him come speak to a series of Chase leaders, and then based off of the talk that he gave, we went off and did some pretty seminal research on what we call jobs to be done.
(13:59):
Other folks in the room probably know what the jobs to be done are too, but we spent a ton of time months qualitative, quantitative, boiling it down to what small business owners want from their financial partner. We can all use different words, but we kind of landed on three primary jobs to be done. Small business owners want a finance institution to have their back safety, security, reliability help when needed. Small business owners want financial institutions to save them time. We already talked about that a little bit. Time is the most precious commodity. How can we help third small business owners, most of them not all want help growing, thereby nature, starting small, getting bigger. Some have ambitions of becoming multinationals. Some have perhaps smaller ambitions, but all of them want to cover their costs, pay themselves, earn a livelihood. So based off of that, those three jobs to be done that my mind always comes back to. We are constantly pressure testing that. So we're doing qual research, we're doing quant research, we're doing product specific research on a daily, monthly, quarterly basis, like we are doing an immense amount of research, which is fantastic. Perhaps most interesting and exciting to me though is when we hold events where we can hear from small businesses directly at scale,
(15:17):
Our taste for business marketing colleagues have done a fantastic job over the past. I think it's a year, two years, three years where we have a series of events. We have these go big events where we'll go to local communities and we will sort of throw a small business bonanza. We'll have speakers come, we will show off all the products and services that we have to offer. We'll have some other entertainment. Last year I think we did Philly, DC, Atlanta. All three events were a huge success. Then we had what we call Make Your Move Summit. We did one in 2023 in Texas. We did it in 2024 in California where we had over a thousand small businesses come and just participate once again in sort of a small business conference in the way that we are all here today. Why do I like those?
(16:02):
Because we can set up stands or whatever you want to call it, show all of our products and small businesses will come, and they're not afraid to give feedback. They love to give feedback. So we will go and we will talk to literally tens, hundreds, sometimes thousands of small businesses at these events and just get massive amounts of feedback on our deposit products, on our payment products, the innovation that they want to see how payroll is going. So it really is a great way for us to get that on the spot. Customer feedback. Last one, and then I'll hand it over to you. What I have done internally with my own team, we have sort of all hands where we get the entire group together once a quarter. I really like plucking a small business out of our customer base and having them come speak to our entire team.
(16:49):
And I always ask three questions, how did you get started? I think small business owners stories are just amazing, craziest stories of how these people get started. I ask what we do well, what Chase does well, how we support their needs, and then always ask for feedback. What could we do better? And once again, there's these fantastic stories. I think the last person that we had was a tattoo artist that travels but spends most of his time in Dallas, which is just sort of a crazy story to begin with. And his feedback for us was, please don't push software updates at two in the morning because that's when I'm doing most of my business. And we were like, okay, a few questions on why you're doing most of your business at 2:00 AM but that's you. That's a small business, but hey, sorry about that. Most people aren't totally following in your specific use case. We probably will have to do some software updates and 2:00 AM just happens to be when fewer people are doing business. But it's always great to get that on the spot, nuanced feedback from customers directly. Long answer to a short question, but hopefully sort of the passion that we have for hearing from our customers comes through.
Stu Richards (17:54):
Yeah, no, that's great. And yeah, we'd love to talk about some of the learnings from all that input, which is specifically around the new products that you've been rolling out. So tell us about that.
John Frerichs (18:03):
So like I said, I love this research that we did back in 2015 of the three jobs to be done. So just once again, sort of have my back, which we view as safety, security, reliability, save me time, which we view as product integration or any way that we can save a customer from having to go through a bunch of hoops to work with us and then help me grow, which could be credit you need credit to grow, can also be tools like our customer insights tool that we've launched several years ago and are rolling out to our business banking base where you get increasing amounts of insight into your customers and how you could grow from there. So what we do is take that lens to all of our product development and our feature enhancements. So we view that first job to be done, sort of the safety, security, reliability as the right to play. If you don't have four nines of availability, if you are not a trusted partner, it is really hard to go out and incredibly talk to a small business and say like, Hey, we can be here for you. And when you're processing payments, it's the lifeblood of a business.
(19:12):
Do we ever have problems? We are a business, we are humans. Of course we have problems, but we try to hold ourselves to a very high standard of our uptime, so we're processing payments as much as possible for our partners. Second job to be done is the integration. We spent a ton of time here thinking through how we can make those onboarding journeys better. Something that we are very proud of. I think Jessica was actually one of the brainchild of this was when you get what we call A-C-B-C-B-R Chase for business complete banking account back in late 2020, early 2021, we embedded merchant services or payments acceptance directly into the bank account. What does that mean? That means you're onboarded or underwritten once we collect all your information at one time and then you tell us if you want a payments account as well or a merchant services accounts, two clicks indicate your interest, agree to terms of service, and then you're up and running.
(20:09):
And now with tap to pay, it's like literally you can click twice now, you'll be able to accept payments via your iPhone. It's a pretty amazing value proposition. And then on the third one, as we've talked about helping small businesses grow credit, we're a bank, we offer credit, but increasingly something that we're proud of is using our data and then spitting it back to small businesses in the form of customer insights. I think we have six modules today to help them look at their chase for business online portal and say, oh, interesting. I'm doing really well in this demographic, or I'm doing really well in this geography, or I'm doing really well at this time of day. That helps inform marketing campaigns, helps inform staffing, helps inform where they want to spend their time and resources going forward. So those are all core to our value proposition and we want to bring all of those things to bear in this cohesive sort of chase for business franchise that we're very proud of and we hope that our customers like as well.
Stu Richards (21:08):
That's great. And tell us in terms of payment or invoicing solutions, some of the new things you've been rolling out.
John Frerichs (21:15):
Yeah. Another mouthful here. So we've had a busy 2023 and 2024, so I'll kind of walk the full spectrum of what we've launched. We launched Tap Tate, which I talked about. We launched a new card reader. We have our proprietary circular card reader that is Chase branded that we're very proud of. We've launched a new set of terminals. We've had terminals in market for 20 or 30 years, and a lot of that hardware and software was becoming outdated, so we wanted to do what we could to just provide a new form factor, touchscreens larger 4G, all the bells and whistles that if you got a terminal 20 years ago wouldn't have. Then we launched an invoicing product, which I'll talk about more in a second. So digital invoicing product available through app, our Chase app as well as Chase business online, which is something that we did in concert with our business banking partners.
(22:13):
We launched our payroll offering, so that was one of the sessions that we held yesterday with Gusto. We actually went out and partnered with Gusto as opposed to building in-house. And then on top of that, we have the customer insights module and then also a faster payments tool. So all of those real time, same day elements of faster payments that I talked about, we now offer that digitally where you can go in and say, great, I have these 10 payments that I need to send. What's really important that I'm willing to pay a little bit more for to send real time? What is okay if it shows up in four days and you can send that as part of your normal bank account. So all of that product delivery has happened within the last 18 months. So we're definitely investing to make our small businesses lives easier.
(22:55):
And then an invoicing particular, it is one that we, I don't want to say we struggled with it, but we looked at it, we knew it was a customer need. We weren't sure we did the classic build by partner, and we really landed on this being fundamental to our value proposition. It is, it has to deal with payments. Most of those payments clear directly into a bank account. That's kind of who we are. So we said we're going to invest, we're going to build this, and is it perfect? No, there's been people who have been working on invoicing for 20 years, but we feel proud of where we have what we've accomplished and where we're headed, which is truly a digital customizable invoicing product through mobile, through the Chase business online portal. And we are sort of four months into being GA or general availability.
(23:51):
Great feedback. So far. Nice customer uptake. I won't quote any growth rates because when you have six months or insane growth rates that aren't totally relevant, but we're excited. This is a product that we think is core to who we are and will have a long runway with us. So tons of feedback. So whenever you launch something, we try to do things increasingly MVP to GA and then foster increasing amounts of features over time. So we are at the beginning end of, let's call it a nine inning baseball game. Maybe we're in inning number two, but we are taking that feedback of like, oh, okay, small businesses want to have their logo. They want all this to be customizable. They want even if the invoices to be paid via check to be able to go online and say like, yep, that was paid so that everything reconciles. Yes, they want some data transfer back and forth if they use QuickBooks, which is an amazing piece of accounting software. So those are all features that are either in the hopper for us or to come.
Stu Richards (24:47):
Great. At this point, I wanted to see if anyone has any questions for John on any of the either market data or payment solutions he's discussed. Sure. Please.
Audience Member 1 (25:01):
Can I ask a question about your payroll with partnership?
John Frerichs (25:05):
Absolutely.
Audience Member 1 (25:06):
So today y'all offer a service called Basic Payroll, which allows your customers to do standard ACH next, ACH, or real-time payments for employees and vendors. Do you see that product still holding water after you start partnering with Gusto? Because Gusto is a more full, robust payroll experience, which can calculate all kinds of things like taxes and vacation and hours worth, et cetera, versus your basic payroll is just essentially a net amount that you're sending from one individual to another, not calculating any of those other expenses. Do you see that product still holding water now that you're going to be partnering with Gusto?
John Frerichs (25:50):
Yeah. Why we are so excited about partnering with Gustos. They are payroll experts. So we are balancing a lot of, we're spinning a lot of plates in our hands. We view ourselves as banking experts, lending experts, payments experts, not necessarily payroll experts, but we know we have a right to play there. So one of the reasons that we went out and developed this partnership with Gusto is because they are going to do all those feature enhancements and we're going to be able to take advantage of that. So all of the features that they might have for their proprietary offering, are they going to be lit up day one in their embedded offering? That's really up to them, but they are pushing extremely hard in a customer centric way. We want to take advantage of that customer centricity in all the feature enhancements that you just mentioned, and we have a roadmap of delivering them.
(26:34):
So to answer your question a bit more bluntly, like will the new eat the old it will at some point, but we're going to sort of do it thoughtfully. We have to do it in a stable, secure way at scale, and we're going to do it in partnership with Gusto. So do I have a specific data in which something's going to be decommissioned and something's going to take over? No, because that would be silly. We want to make sure that we are doing this in the right thoughtful way, in close partnership with Gusto, with a ton of feedback from our customers along the way.
Audience Member 1 (27:00):
Thanks for answering that because the basic payroll, to me, I see it as a very convenient service for a business that may have a small amount of employees where they may not want to pay a full monthly service charge to Gusto because they really don't need that full robust payroll service. They just need a simple, Hey, I just need to pay my employee their amount. I only have five Gusto is like a full service. So to me, it almost feels like, hey, that basic payroll really does serve that true small business sector that has small employees and Gusto gives you that extra, hey, for the more mid to large size businesses can really take advantage of this excellent service. Gusto was a fantastic payroll service, so I was just curious to what your thoughts were around.
John Frerichs (27:46):
Yeah, lemme build off that for a second because it's a theme that we're trying to get better at. We do not want to inate small businesses with choice, but we also want to have some level of choice. So you will see we have sort of three tiers of bank accounts that come with different features. Even our customer insights module that is live with our payments customers today and coming to our business banking customers of the six modules, we won't necessarily light up all six for the sole prop, maybe only two we'll be relevant. Same for payroll. So we will let customers tell us, do you want this more advanced offering? Do you want the simple offering? We're going to try to meet customers where they are. It's like threading that fine balance between having enough options so that if you're small or if you're medium or if you're a large small business, you have different features and functionality you can play with the different price points while also, like I said, not inundating them with too many choices where it's like a small business owner's like, Hey, I'm trying to grow my flooring business, not figure out the 10 payroll options that you have.
(28:46):
Just tell me I've got 20 employees. What am I best suited for? Okay, looks like this that comes at this price with this level of service and these features. So you will see us try to take advantage of that modularity across multiple elements of a value proposition over time.
Audience Member 1 (29:02):
Thank you.
John Frerichs (29:03):
Yeah, absolutely.
Audience Member 2 (29:10):
First of all, thank you for all the insights today. I had a question with respect to the merchant insights that you were talking about, is the bank leveraging, issuing and acquiring data in order to bring together some of those insights or what does that look like?
John Frerichs (29:27):
Acquiring data only? There are for a lot of, we take privacy and security very important as Sacro Sant to who we are. So for that insights offering, it is a merchant product with small businesses, or we even offer it to large businesses, and we are using obfuscated or anonymized merchant acquiring data. Why do we think that works? We are, I think depending upon whether you're looking at volume or transactions, JP Morgan is the world's largest acquirer. So we have immense amount of data that we can play with and anonymize, and then we are spitting that back to our small business middle market, our large enterprise owners in an anonymized way that is useful to them. So I answered your question with a bit more detail, but no issuing data, all acquiring data that is anonymized but made useful for the specific consumer or small business merchant that is going to be using it. We, of course, take the privacy and the data walls that need to be in place according to the government and regulatory environment very seriously. We will, maybe I'll add a little pitch here and I see one more question. What we do have ambitions of is we recently announced publicly that we will be a little bit more active in the offer space, so that will actually be led by our credit card issuing business. So they will figure out ways to use their own data to help small businesses grow through an issuing centric value proposition, and we will support that wholeheartedly, but we will make sure that the data is sort of kept separate as needed.
Audience Member 3 (31:04):
When you were talking about invoicing, you mentioned that there was a component of general availability, and I wanted to ask, how do you think about new innovations that you decide to release as part of a pilot versus available to all users on day one, while balancing the fact that maybe some of these features don't have all the bells and whistles, but your customers expect that it works? Perfect.
John Frerichs (31:27):
Yeah, that is an existential question, my friend, and that is going to be a different answer to everybody. So if you are a startup, your version of GA or MVP is far different than what it is for us at JP Morgan Chase or probably any of the other banks that are represented in this room, just in terms of scale, security, reliability, and then also the regulatory levels that you need to adhere to. So for us, it is definitely an art and not a science. What we are going to do is take customer feedback and say, great, what is A MVP? Either a minimally viable product or a minimal commercially viable product that we're happy to put in front of a select set of customers to get feedback. So we do that very thoughtfully. We will take that feedback and then decide what GA is and what GA looks like.
(32:18):
So I wish I had like a, oh, it's 2000 merchants, then it's ga. It's just so much more nuanced than that and it's so much more nuanced for us as Chase than it might be for Gusto. Then it might be for a sole prop. So I wish I had a hard hitting direct answer, but for us it is really a mix of what do we think adheres to our safety, security, reliability standards that we have as JPMorgan Chase, what are we willing to put in front of a customer to get feedback, and then what are the boxes that we want to check that make sure that we are comfortable rolling it out? And increasingly you will see, or you can tell, we do not roll out to our 4 million small businesses that we have access to at once. We roll things out on sort of like a metered schedule. Sometimes it takes months, sometimes it takes weeks where it'll be 25% of our base, then maybe 50% of our base, then 75, then a hundred. We have just found that's the best way to iron out the kinks. You're always going to miss something in PVT. You might even miss something in the early levels of ga. We don't want to find that problem or bug out when 4 million merchants have access to it. We want to find that out when 400 or 4,000 do. Absolutely.
Stu Richards (33:26):
Great. Well, it looks like we're at time, so thank you very much first for your great questions, and second to John for your outstanding insights. Thank you so much.
John Frerichs (33:36):
Yeah, thank you for having me. Thank you for the questions.