Product Offerings and Evolution

Transcription:

Keren Moynihan (00:11):

Hey, everybody. Who's enjoying day one of the conference? Woo.

(00:20):

I answered like a bunch of bankers in the middle of the afternoon. Who needs coffee?

(00:27):

Alright, my name's Keren Moynihan. I'm the CEO of Boston Sites, and I'm here with a couple distinguished folks from both Truist and Citizens. We're going to chat with you today about the right product offering for SMB. Right after we heard from two main speakers, Comerica and Chase, that they don't want to hear about products. So that's what we're going to talk about today. We're all going to do our own intros, and so myself, I am a former banker myself. I worked in commercial and I dealt firsthand with dealing with businesses and what they want and actually the biggest uphill battle was getting the bank to make it happen. Boss Insights is a data and generative AI provider. We offer insights on banking, information accounting, payroll, sales tax and insights on that to show your business clients how to grow. We work with about 80 financial institutions. Very excited to get into it with you today.

Scott Stearsman (01:27):

Yeah, good afternoon, Scott Stearsman at Truist Bank. I've been with Truist for 10 years. The last two years I've led small business banking for Truist. The prior eight I've spent on the retail side of the bank, so moving over into the small business and excited to be with everybody this afternoon.

Mark Valentino (01:44):

Great. Mark Valentino, President of Business Banking at Citizens. I was with Citizens and commercial and corporate banking. From 2015 to 2020, I decided to take three and a half years away from banking to go run a community hospital in downtown Los Angeles during the pandemic, and then I quickly decided to rejoin banking in 2023. So I'm glad to be here.

Keren Moynihan (02:10):

So we have a couple questions and then we're going to leave time for q and a. We wanted to start with talking about what an SMB is because I think the biggest challenge for everyone in the industry is working with businesses that are just starting and working with businesses who have some revenue under their belt. They have different needs, and here we have two distinguished financial institutions and people who have made a career of serving businesses, but they define them differently. One zero to 10 million, one zero to 25 million. And all day we've been hearing about how SMBs are really retail clients in disguise, but I don't think that's the case. I don't think that's serving their needs. So the first question we had is, what is the real thing that businesses need? What is the real product that we have to sell that businesses want? So I'm going to turn it over.

Mark Valentino (03:01):

So again, not trying to talk about product too much today. I think we're all pretty commoditized in terms of product offerings, but I would say having left commercial and now coming back into business banking from the surveys that we've run in the last several months, I think the opening speaker today made a good point about clients want help and in terms of how they can get help, it's not just a product, it's not just a credit card or a certain type of bank account or a certain type of payments platform. They want help with their business. They want to understand what they need to understand what they're missing, what others are doing. And I think from that standpoint, it really leveraging my commercial background. I think what clients really want is that relationship, and I agree with that speaker from Chase. I think he made a good point of saying that he doesn't think people are ever going to be truly removed from the process, and I would agree with that.

(03:58):

I think as you move up, especially in small business, so as the companies get from really micro to midsize to truly maybe lower middle market, the importance of relationship driven and ideas is critical. It's less about products at that point and more about, do I trust the person that I'm dealing with that he or she's going to be able to give me the best information possible? I would say an approach that we're taking in business banking right now is migrating away from the concept of product and migrating into the concept of platform. And what I mean by that is, so we're rolling out a new banking platform called Cashflow Essentials, and that's going to hopefully allow our customers to basically do everything they need to run their business inside of that central citizens portal. So if you think about accounting, invoicing, making payments through digital payment platforms like Zelle and others, we've kind of now built a platform that allows them to do all of that inside of their banking portal, which I'm excited, really excited about because I don't view that as a product anymore. I view that as an environment for a business owner to actually run their company.

Scott Stearsman (05:09):

There's a lot of goodness in that. What I would say is I think less about the products and services of our small businesses. I mean, you have the traditional solution set and suite of solutions. For our small businesses, it's more about how do our small business want to be served and where are they served. Historically, we've defined at Truist small business in the zero to 2 million in revenue with some business credit exposure to that and complexity of treasury needs of how we've segmented those clients. But when you look at clients from zero to two and two to 5 million in revenue or five to 10 million in revenue, what we saw there is those clients all had similar needs. They behaved very similarly in terms of digital adoption. Their branch usage was very similar of going into the branch from an $8 million client in revenue versus a 1 million client revenue.

(05:59):

Their behaviors and patterns were very similar. So what we said is, well, why don't we take the resources that we are decking against micro small business and business banking when those clients are acting the same? Let's put those together. But then how we go to serve those clients may be differently. So in the zero to 2 million who are heavy branch users and their treasury is in the branch, they go in there for cashflow, for making deposits and getting cash, then our branch leaders should be the primary point of contact to be able to serve those clients as their revenue and their business complexities grow. Then let's advise and provide the solutions and the service delivery and even more virtual model. So instead of having the car banker who gets in the car, they drive to their small business, knock on the door, we actually say, okay, client, we're going to open up this virtual model for you that allows a virtual team of bankers who had the advice and expertise of being able to help small businesses at your fingertips to be able to call when and where and how you want to be able to be served.

(07:00):

Then on the higher end and the five to 10 million, we still have relationship managers that serve those clients, but it's not more of a team-based approach. That way we can bring the scale to those clients based on what they need and where they need it. But if a client prefers to be banked and their relationship manager is out of a branch, then we want to deliver that great experience that way as well. Not tying it so much to the segmentation because the client doesn't walk in the door, pick up the phone and go, Hey, I'm a business banking client. It's really how do we understand that client and determine how to serve them holistically?

Keren Moynihan (07:35):

Okay. I completely agree with that. Having worked with so many banks and credit unions and fintech's who are trying to get that market share, we hear that businesses want two things. They want to grow their business, they want to pay and get paid. And that second one, I can't take credit for it, actually, Scott said it in our prep session on the call, we just said they want payments to be easier. It's just such a pain in the butt to create an invoice and then create a request for a payment. And that's what we ask businesses to do every day. And we've all known the term API for five, maybe 10 years depending on who you are. So there's no excuse for it. The thing is that that looks like walking into a dashboard as a banker that shows you exactly what your customers need, whether it's payments, deposits, lending or group solutions or wealth management.

(08:24):

And on the business side, it looks like, Hey, are you aware that your payment days are 72 days? Last quarter there were 50 and the whole industry is getting paid faster than you. Here's the thing that's going to fix that for you. When I was a banker, my bank lied to me. They told me and tell me how many bankers do we have in the room versus service providers if you're a banker, okay, so tell me if your bank ever told you this. They really did say to me, businesses will come to you. They'll know what they want and they'll have all their information ready. That was my training. It was in a binder this thick, and that happened zero times out of 3000. So I think that it's up to us to display all of that in one place for the bankers and for the businesses.

(09:16):

The next question we wanted to talk about is deposits versus what the businesses really want, which is capital because well now I feel like I asked the question this morning if anyone heard it, but I really wanted to hear what Chase had to say. Most businesses want access to capital. 86% of businesses want access to capital. Some of them don't even bother applying. It's just too strenuous and painful to do. So what bankers want is deposits right now, and how do we address that? How do we do this in a way that is truly customer centric where what we're trying to push for, what our mandates are completely different from what our customers want. So I'm going to turn it over to two distinguished panelists to get started.

Mark Valentino (10:03):

I don't remember this on the prep list.

(10:07):

I would say at the end of the day, as banks, we go through cycles. We're in a tough cycle right now as it relates to liquidity and our own capital, and obviously having some banks that didn't make it through that cycle earlier this year doesn't help. But at the end of the day, I think however long banking's been around hundreds of years in some form or another, you have to keep in mind at the end of the day, what's truly important from a principal standpoint, and that is serving the customers. Otherwise, we don't have any reason to be here. And our speaker from Chase this morning talked about disintermediation, and I think the further away we migrate from the customer and what the customer needs, I think the faster that disintermediation is going to occur, whether it occurs by FinTech partners, whether it occurs by the government itself or whether it occurs from other pressures.

(10:53):

So yes, banks do need deposits right now. I'd say at Citizens we're still very much open for business. On the lending side, we typically find that in small business, even when you're doing lending to the companies that need capital, if you're serving those customers well, they end up bringing deposits over. We look at it more from a, we want the full relationship with the customer. So in this cycle, the customer might need a loan and the next cycle, the customer might be cash rich. And when you look at your overall bank and portfolio of your customers, I think you end up getting a pretty good mix inside of business banking. Whereas in commercial, it kind of skews more towards the lending side versus the deposit side just based on how big those companies are and what they truly need. So I would just say don't lose focus of the customer even when your bank institution has specific tactical needs right now, and that may skew your banker's, scorecards and stuff like that towards certain products, but at the end of the day, it's more about retaining customers and adding new customers to the franchise.

(11:56):

And that can't always happen with just looking at it from a product or need based. I think you have to look at it from the customer's point of view as well. And that's kind of why I went back to the we're building a platform as opposed to we're building products. If we get more customers on our new platform that we're pretty proud of, whether they need lending or whether they have deposits, I think all things will come from that. If they're happy with the platform, if they're not happy with your banking platform, they're probably not going to stick around to begin with.

Keren Moynihan (12:23):

Truist had something with digital insights and performance marketing that worked really well there, right?

Scott Stearsman (12:28):

Yeah, I would just go back to, I think it's a win-win for the bank and what's good for the client. I think the biggest thing that really pushed us in deposits this year was creating this competitive solution for our clients that would bring them in. And also this value exchange is what I would call, and I can't take credit for this, David Hiller, who's over there who leads our small business deposits, but we have a relationship rewards. And so as clients deposits grow, we move those clients into tiers and based on their tiers of deposit growth that they bring and consolidate into the bank, we then exchange those for rewards back to the client. So we all know borrowing costs have gone up. Well, if clients bring deposits to Truist, then we give discounts on those loans. Same thing for treasury products and et cetera, so that we're driving that value exchange, the clients bring deposits to us, then we'll reward that client for their relationship.

(13:27):

And we've seen really strong deposit growth and clients moving into that solution on back book plus acquisition. The other thing that I would say is what you mentioned is, Karen, the performance marketing has been a game changer for us this year. So if you look at prospecting, so we get a direct mail on new businesses that are startup with promotion. We do a lot of paid search digital through client authentication, and that has driven acquisition significantly up this year from prior year. So those two are the levers I would say is the competitive solutions still makes a difference. Clients when they shop around want to look for that, it's helped us pull deposits in. Plus also the performance of marketing has really stepped up.

Keren Moynihan (14:10):

And I guess I would yes and that by saying we tend to look at serving a business even if we're saying we're customer centric as a transactional occurrence, but what if we made it that every time a business needed something, we then showed them insights about what could help them to grow. And a big one there is actually you could take data coming from payroll and explain to the business insights about their most, their largest expense, which is usually their employees. And you as a bank would get insights on not only deposit opportunities from the business standpoint, but personal deposits. It's a theme that Comerica up earlier today. SMBs are actually a really great way to get insights into new retail customers. So just by expanding the conversation to more than just the solution you're looking at, at that moment, you can uncover new opportunities that help both the client and the bank.

(15:11):

Alright, so this is a conversation about data and generative AI. It was part of the sub points on the bullet. And five, 10 years ago, we were all talking about how data was going to save our life. Anyone feel like data has saved our life so far? Data's the new oil. So the question that we wanted to discuss was with all the information that we have internal in banks, do we have enough to compete or do we need new technology that adds gen AI and do we need to throw that into the mix? And just before we get into the discussion, I'd love to see there's financial insights for all of us on our personal accounts. Is anyone using those financial insights to help them personally? Oh, I so want to know. How can I call on you to say how?

Audience Member 1 (16:10):

From credit cards to budgets and savings and amount into it? So I guess.

Keren Moynihan (16:26):

Okay, I completely want to double click. I'm going to ask you because we all have access to insights at least on the consumer side. And now I know of a use case for why, because most people are not using it. We want to talk about the use case for insights that we could give to businesses to add cross-selling, to deepen the relationship that you have with the business customer.

Scott Stearsman (16:52):

I think for the biggest opportunity for us, we launched Digital Client Insights in July at Truist. It's all internal data driven and it's all of Truist transaction data. We've seen good adoption from our clients. What we want to bring in is the external capabilities. So what are the off bus transactions through payroll or through accounting data that we can help feed into those small businesses to help them run their business. The big thing to tap into though as we're thinking about this is how do we feed those insights into our relationship managers so that when they come and start to serve those clients, there's an opportunity to say, okay, here's the next best action for you to be able to take and have a conversation with a client. That's really what we think from an insight. It's what are the clients doing with what we're providing digitally, but how do we provide that capability to RM's to be able to have a better conversation?

Mark Valentino (17:45):

Yeah, I agree with that. So on the commercial side of the bank at Citizens, we had actually started doing that five years ago before some of this AI really got pushed forward. So we used some tools within Salesforce to speak to, if you will, our RM's in the commercial space when they would log in every day to say, Hey, here's some things you need to focus on X, Y, and Z of this client. So we're a little bit more developed on the commercial front than we are on the business banking front on that end. And I think it's something we want to put into the routines of our bankers just to help them become more efficient with their day. Especially in business banking, you are dealing with a lot higher volume number of clients. You're dealing with a lot of transactions that are moving a lot faster, so they're smaller, faster, and a lot more volume.

(18:28):

So if you can arm your relationship managers with how they should navigate their day, I think they would be welcoming that because sometimes they walk in the morning, they've got 10 phone calls to respond to, 20 emails to respond to, and it's kind of just like a chaos storm that we heard about this morning. And it will always be chaos, but if you can give them tools to navigate through that storm every day, I think it'd be really valuable and helpful. So I think the AI will certainly help us do our jobs better over time as bankers. I hope also there's already AI and features out there that will help us prospect better, go after better leads, just create more efficiencies over time. And I think the same would be said for our clients as well. I think banks have the opportunity. We are large data centers, we have the opportunity to be responsible leaders on that front. I don't know of any institution that's really thought about how to do that yet. I know at Citizens we have a large work stream kind of focusing on that and how it'll affect the customer experience. But I think it's very, very early stages.

Keren Moynihan (19:32):

I can say I wish I had it when I was a banker at RBC. I spent 80% of my time figuring out which clients to call and what to call them about and 20% of my time going after my mandate. And I feel like that's the wrong version of the 80 20 rule data is just pulling banking information or if you have APIs external their financial statements, but a financial statement or banking data, it's not the same thing as here's your payment solution or here's your access to capital, or here's deposits or here's wealth management. You have to run those calculations. That was in that 80% bucket I was talking about where you took really educated people and you had them using calculators all the time. And Gen AI just kind of takes that out of the equation. You have the information and instantly what business needs what, and that account manager can just call them, they see it in front of their screen and that marketing group can personalize the offers.

(20:35):

So what we've learned is that 75% of businesses want all of their financial information on one place. They're not using one bank anymore. I feel like I'm kind of just saying the alphabet when I say that they're using five to seven banks. If you only have your banking data, you have a fifth to a seventh of their financial information. And so we're kind of operating blind. You need to actually have it all in one place, and if you're the one providing it, they're coming to you. So we're nearing up to the Q and A, but we have two last questions. I think we'd all agree, and if not, please let us know that self-service options have really been a great strategy for banks and growing their p and l lines. But now that clients can do it all themselves, how do you add in that personalization layer? Because if they're getting from you what they'll get from a FinTech, how are you really differentiating yourself? Does do it yourself mean doing it? Well, and now that I've asked the tough question, I'm just going to let other people answer it. I don't want to.

Mark Valentino (21:44):

No, I think it's the right direction to head for banks. I think customers do not want to be stuck on the phone on some customer service line for hours on end. I don't think they want to be stuck in branches where they can sometimes get the right answer and oftentimes not get the right answer. So I think if there's a better self-service model out there, I think that's kind of what our customers want. I mean, at the end of the day, the other big thing that our customers really want is they just want to be able to run their business seamlessly. They want to be able to do everything in one place if they can, so they don't have to have 10 different applications and they want to be able to do it at the right cost, and they want to be able to do it seamlessly without a lot of problems.

(22:20):

So historically banks have gotten in the way of that because we don't make things easy to do. I think we're starting to catch up by building things in-house through our innovation funds or also partnering with fintech's. And so there's a build versus buy versus partner component to all this, but I think banks are getting better at the self-service model. We're rolling out something called Digital Butler, which is going to basically allow clients to do self-help without having to do all of those tedious phone calls and visits. And I think that'll go a long way to help servicing the customer. Again, trying to build a platform where customers can log in and do all of their business needs in one place so they're not jumping from their bank platform to their QuickBooks to their payments. Having an all in one warehouse I think will help. So I think ultimately banks, especially in small business and consumer, are migrating more towards a service oriented institution as opposed to what traditional banking used to be. And I think if we don't do that, the disintermediation component will happen a lot faster.

Keren Moynihan (23:22):

And you were saying earlier today that citizens actually invested a lot in New Tech over the last year.

Mark Valentino (23:27):

Yep. In business banking specifically? Yep.

Scott Stearsman (23:30):

Yeah, I think about it and we think about client preference. So we certainly want to provide the tools for the client if they want to self-serve, but what we haven't done is being able to integrate that experience for the client. So we have thousands of clients that call our care center every day business care, our contact center, but their need and contact center may not be able to be served in the contact center. So how do we connect that relationship and that client to someone that's able to provide advice and expertise or if they're in that digital experience, they want to speak to someone, how did they get someone on the phone versus having to stop what they're doing, get in the car and drive to their branch. And so what we try to do is to integrate that experience for the client. So if they're in our care or contact center and they want to speak to someone about a loan or a deposit, how does that agent transfer them immediately to a virtual small business banker that is able to help them be able to fulfill online or in that virtual space, or if they're in a branch and they have a more complex need than what that branch leader is able to help them with, how do they get them to someone that is able to be able to assist them in that space as well?

(24:42):

So we've been really focused on from a client experience standpoint of integrating that so the client doesn't have to navigate all of the channels themselves. We're really trying to make that easier for the client, getting them to the right person that can assist them on the spot versus having to go in their car or call multiple people, try to get that solved.

Keren Moynihan (25:03):

I just thought of something just as the two of you were chatting, and it was that when we're chatting with banks, we're rarely at Boston Insights talking with the account managers, and I would argue that the internal digital teams are not really thinking about what the account managers are going through on a day-to-day basis. It is ruthless out there to try and get the attention of a business owner when they have so much choice at their fingertips, and then you're fighting your internal systems to get what that business owner needs done. And my thought is to improve on self-service options, the key ingredient is to hear what account managers have to say about what's working and what isn't working. They're the ones on the front lines. They're seeing what's working with the sale and what isn't. And if you believe Comerica, you do it once you figure out how to scale it. So the account managers are key in that based on what you're saying. Okay, what's our time looking like?

Mark Valentino (26:01):

Five minutes you want to go through?

Keren Moynihan (26:02):

Okay, Q and A. Do not all jump up at once. Okay.

Audience Member 2 (26:14):

You made that comment about providing digital insights to clients and the next step would be taking those insights directly to your rms. What's holding back from bringing those insights.

Scott Stearsman (26:28):

Investment and very cost restrictive environment that we're in right now? The data's there. We've got the vendor capability. It's just making the investment to take the next turn. The first step was let's introduce it to our clients. Let's learn and see what the responses are, the reactions, the adoption, adoption has exceeded our expectations, actions that they're taking based off of the insights. But we recognize though that the real unlock is being able to take that to our RM's because we provide leads to them, but how qualified are those leads to be able to take action upon? If we have the data insights that said, clients clicked here, this is what they're interested in, or these are insight we can provide them, we know that's the next step because we want to give those leads to our bankers that they're going to be working at a greater rate, but it's just the investment.

Keren Moynihan (27:21):

Can I add to that? What I heard from a banker in a previous panel at a different conference was we see so much tech, it's FinTech tinder, and all I care about is my P&L. That's all I care about. But the vendor, I'm sitting in the vendor seat, we have no idea about the P&Ll. It's an opaque environment. And when we're in a sales conversation, I can't say, can you just slide over your P&L so that I can do an analysis and then come to you and show you why this tech is sliced bread. It's going to solve all your problems. So we're out there talking about our features. The person on the other side is bored, probably annoyed, and doesn't know what to choose, quite frankly. And we can't have an open dialogue. And the only time I saw that veil lowered was PPP where bankers just had to GSD get stuff done. That's what the S stands for. And so we could work together and now the veil has lifted. So it's a challenge.

Mark Valentino (28:27):

I think we had a question back there. Yeah.

Audience Member 2 (28:28):

Yeah. Thank you, Mark Scott, for your respective banks, how do you guys think about taking down some of the silos, right? So when you operate in PL is a good example, you have different lines of business you operate with the PL environment. When you're talking about crossing different channels, whether it's virtual physical, whether it's one product line to another, what are some ways you guys are thinking about that perspective institutions?

Mark Valentino (28:53):

Yeah. No, I think it's a constant battle and struggle, to be honest with you. So I hate the segmentations by revenue for some of the reasons that Scott mentioned. We pool our clients together by numbers because we're bankers and that's all we know how to do instead of thinking about our clients in a much more dynamic manner. So our clients generally all live in the same communities, including our commercial clients and our retail clients and our private banking clients. And they're all interacting together, whether it be through schools or children, and yet we're defining them by, okay, that's a $5 million revenue client does not make a lot of sense and it's not how the real world works. So I think we have to change it pretty quickly.

(29:36):

We're in the early stages of I think what that looks like. Whether banks really need to be verticalized in the format they are now, this is your business banking team, this is your middle market team, this is your wealth management team. I think that's kind of getting to be kind of the old guard model. And I think more about a team of teams now where you have representation in cross-functional ways across an organization and you serve the client in a much more dynamic cross-functional manner. So doing things like simple things that you can do on that front are, we have weekly team meetings with all of our teams across all of our regions where they have all their product partners as part of that. That's kind of like step one. I don't think that's too sophisticated, but I think it's important to do so that everyone's at the table.

(30:23):

Do those meetings today include all people at the bank that would be interested in talking about those clients? Probably not. It's not dynamic enough to where it's going across commercial consumer wealth barriers, and I think banks need to think about things much more horizontally now going forward than vertically. I think it's hard to do because it's not an easy way to manage. We're not comfortable with it. We haven't been trained on how to do it. I don't think they really teach you that in an MBA program. So it, it's complicated and when things are complicated, we really just try to simplify them and make it right. So that's why we've bucketed clients based on revenue because it's really easy and we understand it. So I think the world is changing. I think a lot of our competitors that are outside banking don't think like that. I think they think way more about the client and the client's needs regardless of industry or size. So I do think banks need to evolve pretty quickly. So great question.

Scott Stearsman (31:15):

Yeah, only thing I would add. I think some of it's organizational. 30 days ago we made an organizational change by combining business banking, a small business because the clients were transacting and behaving exactly like they were in different channels, but yet we were bifurcating sales teams and leadership and just making it harder internally for ourselves. So we said, okay, we're going to put those two together and we're going to have one team and we're going to be focused on these clients that have very similar behaviors and needs. The other thing is, someone has to speak for the client, someone has to own the segment. And when you make that decision, right, to say, okay, this team owns and speaks for the client, and then that dictates the digital experience, the contact center experience, the branch experience, and then there's just got to be shared accountability across that.

Mark Valentino (31:58):

The last thing I'll add on that with what Scott said is when you do verticalize things so much and segment things so much, you end up fighting internally for resources and capital. So the more segments you add, the more people that want needs just for their segment. And there's a lot of synergies across the client base. Like I said, we built a ton of stuff in commercial that I left the bank and came back, and now I don't have access to all that great stuff we built, even though it would be very applicable to my business banking segment. So that alone is just kind of silly, and so I need to go find some capital to make the system speak to each other so that business banking can get advantage of that. So the more you segment, the more you also create internal conflict in terms of competition for limited capital right now. So I think there are better ways to think about that and do it, but I don't think banks or many companies really, especially banks, are yet there.

Keren Moynihan (32:53):

Well, thank you. Oh, last question.

Audience Member 3 (32:55):

How do you guys view the opportunity that is a green economy? Do you guys have market or development?

Mark Valentino (33:11):

So the green economy, is that what you said? Yep. So I can speak to citizens. So we recently launched a, and Frank, you'll have to keep me honest here, 50 billion, 50 billion commitment to ESG causes and green energy being one of those. So actually there's a group that's going to basically be tasked with figuring out how to dole that out into the communities that we serve. So we're a very kind of community centric bank in the eastern seaboard communities that we serve a little bit in the Midwest as well, and now expanding into California. But yes, we're committing 50 billion to causes that green would be part of that, whether it's loans to small businesses, whether it's loans for energy upgrades and commercial buildings that need that, whether it's loans into the energy space itself directly for renewable. There's a lot of ways in which we can do that, but that's one way our bank is committed to doing that.

Keren Moynihan (34:08):

I would say in the past year, about a quarter of our clients or new sales conversations ask us for ESG numbers. So much so that we started partnership discussions with groups that collect that information coming from different data sources. So the trend is going in the right direction. Yep.

Scott Stearsman (34:25):

Yeah, without question, the demand is growing and the advice and expertise need is growing as well. So much that we've created a commercial team specifically focused on that vertical.

Keren Moynihan (34:38):

Cool question. Yeah. Thank you guys very much. Hope to see you this evening.

Mark Valentino (34:42):

Yeah, thank you everyone.