Driving Primacy with Next Generation Personalization

Join us for an insightful roundtable discussion that delves into the evolution of personalization and its impact on the future of customer experience (CX) in the banking sector. From basic account customization to advanced AI-driven recommendations, we will explore how banks can leverage customer data ethically and effectively to provide personalized experiences that enhance customer satisfaction and loyalty.

Transcription:

Kurtis Lin (00:10):
Hey everybody, welcome to this session. Thank you so much for joining us. My name is Kurtis Lin. I am the Co-founder and CEO of Pinwheel. We are the leading payroll connectivity platform. What that basically means is there's this whole vast ecosystem of payroll providers like a DP, Paychex, et cetera, and within those payroll systems are super valuable pieces of information, like who you are, how much you make, where you work, where your direct deposit goes, and much more. And what we do is we connect into all those different payroll systems and through a single API that we open up to our customers who are banks, fintechs, and lenders. Allow them to really easily do things like switch a direct deposit with just one or two clicks, check someone's income for verification, access, additional data for underwriting, and so much more. So really excited to be here with all of you. And I'll pass it to Emmett or Anoop. Sorry.

Anoop Warrier (01:09):
Good Afternoon. Thank you for being here. Anoop Warrier. I'm the Chief Digital and Client Experience Officer for Synovus. We are a $60 billion bank based out of Columbus, Georgia. So what I do for the bank is not just digital. So if you think about all the banker or the employee experiences, I'm accountable for that too. So great, great bank. We won the JD Power last year in the southeast region, so really good things. And with that, Emmett,

Emmett Higdon (01:38):
Thank you. And last but hopefully not least, I'm Emmett Higdon. I'm Director of Digital Banking at Javelin Strategy. Those of you may not be familiar with us. We're a research and consulting firm, kind of like a Forester or a snt. If you don't know our name, you should. I'm here to kick things off today, share a little bit of research and post some questions for these gentlemen. Think of it as I'm here to tell you why your customers think all this stuff is really important. Kurt's here to tell you about why his solution will solve all those problems. And Anoop is here. Anoop is the most important person. He's here to speak from the street perspective and tell you what's working and what might not be working so far. What's not working for us today as an industry? Yeah, mobile banking satisfaction. So this comes out of an annual study, an annual digital banking benchmark study that we do a Javelin.

(02:26):
And you can see that regardless of whether your budget for digital today is five digits, six digits or 11 or 12 digits, it kind of doesn't matter. We're not doing a real great job going too far above that 50%, 50% level, which is that red line across here. The satisfaction is on the Y axis. The bottom axis is a javelin scorecard that we do every year, a functional scorecard to say how well are each of these banks doing? I should go ahead and give us bank a plug. They are our new number one bank. We just released the results publicly this morning of our 2024 mobile banking survey. And US Bank has now moved in this direction in front of Bank of America for the first time in seven years. So B of A has been our number one mobile bank for the last seven years, but not anymore.

(03:14):
And we have a new number one in town, ease of use, which is one of the categories in our scorecard. We know from our consumer research drives 36% of customer satisfaction when we do this data analysis and we say what percent of overall mobile banking satisfaction is driven by ease of use, it's been steadily going up. So now more than one third of satisfaction with mobile banking is coming from the ease of use category. We make it way too difficult to onboard our customers today. Sure. We used to joke with our banking clients to say, you know what? Why are you so concerned about having a five minute or three minute? It used to be an arms raise to say, how long will it take to open a new account with us? It takes too damn long. It takes 10 minutes to open a new account.

(03:58):
That's ridiculous. It takes like three weeks to get up and running with your freaking digital channels. I don't care that it takes 10 minutes to open the account. It's going to take me forever to just sign up for online banking, sign up for a bill payment, sign up for alerts, sign up for mobile deposit, sign up for Zelle. Actually, you can't sign up for mobile deposit because we won't let you until you've been with the bank for three weeks. You can't use mobile deposit yet. It's ridiculous. This is what we're working on. This is why you all hopefully are here today. Quick note, there is a QR code at the end of the session if you stay that long to download all of these slides, so you don't necessarily need to take pictures of them. There's a lovely PDF awaiting you from a QR code at the end.

(04:38):
There's also two surveys, one that the folks at Pinwheel did with financial brand on the power of primacy from which some of the content comes today. And a number of these slides I'll be sharing come from a recent white paper that we did at Javelin for the folks at digital onboarding at the end of the session. There's also QR codes to download both of those reports. They're both really, really good reports. So back to our regular session. So what does being a primary bank even mean anymore to customers as bankers? I'm going to say we as bankers, we tend to think of that primarily as a direct deposit. And indeed that's a really, really important aspect. I call that probably the first thing that we need to do is to get that direct deposit. But increasingly, particularly with Gen Z as you see here with the numbers, it's more about that transactional nature.

(05:28):
When you ask a Gen Z customer, what makes that bank? You say that's your primary bank. What makes that your primary bank? Well, it's just how I spend my money. It's not about who I trust, who I turn to first when I have a new need. There's very little relationship there. It's back to the old days when we used to talk about banking's becoming like the dumb pipes of finance. We're becoming like the cable companies of old. We're just here where your money lands we're not necessarily the place that you think of first when you have a new financial need. That's the reason why Javelin released this report about three years ago now that we call it the mobile banking maturity path. And how do we move from where a lot of banks still are today? And that's that transactional parody. That's what your customers think of you as.

(06:14):
You're where I go to pay my bills, send money, send a Zelle payment, and that's all I think of you. No, we need to be coming this way. And unfortunately, most banks today Javelin believes are kind of stuck in this third phase. So how do we move beyond this? How do we get to these later phases where it's a deeper relationship, you're solving more needs for your customers? And we really believe this comes out of the report as well, that these are the three keys to moving to those deeper relationships. It may sound silly, these might be obvious, these might be obvious to you, but today we do a really poor job as an industry solving for these three challenges, which are engagement. Certainly we want folks to get engaged with our digital channels personalization, which today nobody's really doing a good job with this and automation, which is where we're going to start today because that's Kurt's firm that he founded Pinwheel.

(07:07):
They're bringing automation to help solve that first challenge so that lots and lots of customers are looking at switching, particularly younger consumers, gen Z consumers much more likely to switch, much less loyal. But one of the key parts of that switching equation is getting that direct deposit and coming out of some research the Kurtz folks did here, how important is it to be able to switch that direct deposit easily during account open? Do you really want to print out a paper form, fill it out by hand and hand it to somebody in your HR department? That's what you're going to do to make sure you get paid? Or would you rather go through an automated system to do it right as you're opening that new bank account in the new town that you just moved to? Well, we see that 55% of folks believe that that's very important or even essential to a new account opening process. So with that, I'll bring my fellow presenters in here. So Kurt Automation Javelin talks about how important that is. Obviously that's where you guys, what you founded your company on. Talk to us a little bit about at that point of account opening the role that you see automation playing right at the start of that relationship and getting it off on the right foot.

Kurtis Lin (08:15):
Absolutely. So I think first off, it's important to frame this conversation. When you have a new customer coming in, there's two really key pieces to consider. Number one is intent, and number two is friction. And both are really, really important. So what I mean by intent is what is the value prop to that consumer? Why are they coming to bank with you? If it's just that there is some incentive to get a bonus if they connect their direct deposit, that's not a very sticky customer. I think everyone knows that, right? You offer this incentive, they come in, they grab the money, and then three months later or whatever, they're out of here. What intent really means is are you delivering value for them in a way that allows them to have a much deeper relationship because you're actually solving a real problem for them? And so when you talk about, especially with a direct deposit, what we see work exceptionally well with our customers is when you package that direct deposit with something, meaning connect your direct deposit and you'll get a discount on your mortgage, right? Connect your direct deposit and you'll unlock access to a earned wage access product, connect your direct deposit and get a discount on a credit card or get approved for a credit card. Those are the types of relationships and product structures that we see work exceptionally well because the intent is much, much higher than just saying, Hey, we're paying you to come bank with us.

Emmett Higdon (09:39):
And that carrot approach I think is largely, as you've described it, Kurt is much better than what Chime does. For example, chime has kind of gone all in on direct deposit. Don't even think about opening a Chime account if you're not prepared to give them a direct deposit because you can't get early access to your paycheck unless you set up direct deposit. You can't use P2P payments with Chime unless you set up direct deposit. And there's a third thing, I can't remember what the third item is, but they've gotten really strict about their new accounts. If you don't give us your direct deposit, you're not going to get the full functionality that we have to offer. Now I know you were chatting yesterday. Today's the second session. Thank you for joining us today. You were chatting yesterday about different ways that you all use automation. It's not just at the point of account opening and not even necessarily all customer facing. Maybe you want to talk about that just for a minute.

Anoop Warrier (10:29):
Yeah, thank you, Ahmed. So I kind of mentioned about how we go about doing business at Cenovus, which is not just the client piece, but also the banker pieces too, the employee piece too, right? So when you think about automation, the way we believe is that if you don't take care of the employees, the clients are not going to be happy either. You got to take care of both of them. So automation for us spans across data platforms and experiences. So what we are building, we are putting so much energy into data and experiences on the digital platform. And what we are really saying is what if we were to take those things and hand it to the employees too, the bankers too? Because what happens is the delighter factor that comes in when a client comes in and they're saying the great experiences you're seeing online are the same great experiences that a bankers also seeing and the able to help the client.

(11:22):
That is a great way. So the automation piece in terms of what data are you automating, what experiences are you automating and what technologies all that are spanning across channels. And that's where we're going about it. Again, you've seen a great way for us to say that when clients are walking in and the bankers are able to help them, what used to take two hours, maybe one hour, it's now taking them maybe 10, maybe 15 minutes, and that's a big, big reduction for us. So that's the way we are approaching automation, both for the clients and for the bankers.

Kurtis Lin (11:54):
Can I jump in the second piece? So playing off of what Anoop said, the second piece is around friction. So removing the friction from the process. I think obviously they a great job at Senova in doing that. And from the pinwheel perspective, what we see is think about all the things that that consumer has to do to become a fully engaged customer, right? One is obviously move that direct deposit over. As Emmett mentioned, what happens right now is this laborious process that we've all been through where you fill out a paper form, you bring it to your HR team with a voided check, and then they're like, okay, we'll process this thing for you. And all of a sudden one day weeks later, things are updated. And so what we said is what if you could make that direct deposit switch just with one or two clicks connecting to a DP or whatever system and embed that into the account opening process?

(12:45):
That's one really key piece to remove friction and automate things. And then the other one is even once you have the direct deposit in, you want to grow that relationship. And one of the things that we see all the time is you have customers who have a mortgage or a rent payment or utilities or other recurring costs that are still at that old account, and that's keeping them from being able to fully switch over. And so the other thing is offering what we call bill switching, also known as subscription management, which is we go through, look at all of that consumer's transactions and show you, hey, you should move all of these over to be fully moved over to this new account. And so that allows, again, friction removal to automate that process and make it really easy for consumers.

Emmett Higdon (13:29):
And sticking with that point that that Kurt was making, this was one of the other services that his firm and others offer is you all refer to as income income connectivity, but it's payroll data leveraging the power of payroll data. In fact, we thought so much of this concept sometime mid last year, we wrote an entire report about the power of payroll data as a way to understand your customer much more as a way to get much, much deeper information about them so that those offers or whatever you're trying to do can be much richer, can land in a much better fashion. So Kurt, maybe you can just spend a minute talking about how you all leverage these kinds of payroll data that we've got listed here.

Kurtis Lin (14:11):
Yeah, absolutely. So we started Pinwheel back in 2018. We wandered the desert for a number of years, if I'm being honest. So it was quite a journey, but six years later, we still have the same dream and vision that we had when we first started, which is when you look at your phone, your banking app sits next to some of the most world-class products that have ever existed, the Airbnbs, the Ubers, the Spotifys, et cetera. And that consumer is expecting a delightful experience from all of those other apps. And then when they inevitably get to their banking app, there's just a huge gap and the consumers know that. And our dream was to say, what if we can power a set of data put into the hands of our banking customers to actually make those banking experience just as delightful as those experiences? Again, all the other apps.

(15:04):
And I think the way to do that is you have to have the right data. I think everyone has tried to personalize things before we talk about personalization at every banking conference I've ever been to, but unless you have the right data, you can't actually build really compelling personalized products. And so what we see is with connectivity into a payroll account, I know that this person is as of this very moment still employed. I know how long they've been at that job. I know if they've been promoted, I know if they've gotten an increase in hours worked. I know if they've sold stock options. I can see if they got an end of year bonus. You start to get all these really powerful contextual triggers about their financial life, and you can then use that to proactively say, congratulations, we saw you got promoted. Maybe you might be interested in a high yield savings account. Or we have a wonderful wealth advisory practice here that we think would be a great fit for your needs. And now you're starting to provide this delightful experience that the consumer has expected from all their other apps but hasn't been able to get from their bank.

Anoop Warrier (16:05):
I would add to that is when you think about conversations, right? It's the data that we were just showed over there. So think about if you can visualize what the bankers are also seeing from a dashboard standpoint. They got a bunch of things that they kind of see in front of them. What if you were able to say the tenure of the client and the products that they have and the transactions they've had with you, plus this data that is not being provided if you were to surface them, can you imagine the richer conversation you can have with the client? And that's the path we are going down is making not just the experiences richer, but the conversations richer too, is what we're trying to do.

Emmett Higdon (16:43):
That's certainly a much richer thing than simply saying you've been pre-approved for a new credit card. Exactly the delightfulness that consumers look for in their mobile banking app, the expectations keep going up. I mean, Kurt made an excellent point about you think about all your favorite apps and how much you rely on them. We tend to set lower expectations. I think for our bank, we know they're not going to be as good as that. There's no reason they shouldn't be as good as that. But it takes an awful lot of stuff. And data is certainly one of those big things as we used to get going. This used to be an easy business, bring on a new customer. You just get the direct deposit, you enroll the customer in online banking, you give them a debit card pin and everybody's happy. They go and they spend tens of thousands of dollars and you make a ton of money on interchange.

(17:31):
It's a little bit more complicated today. There's a few more steps now that go into onboarding a new customer, a lot more things that we'd like to get them engaged in. These things don't happen automatically. These things don't happen without explaining the value proposition to customers about each and every one of these things. I used to get a lot of customers would come to me and say, help us understand we only have 20% of our customers using remote deposit. Why don't we have more people using it? I said, well, when's the last time you ran a campaign around it? Or did you run a report to see? Are you pushing out notifications only to those customers who aren't already enrolled? Well, no, we haven't done any of that. It's like, okay, well if that functionality falls in the woods and your customer's not there to hear it, does it really exist? And there's actually some data coming that shows that that's a problem too. Exploration and simply getting your customers to even know that a lot of this stuff is in your app. And let me throw it back over to Anoop for a second. We'll get to that point later.

(18:36):
How do you get the customer onboarded into all this stuff? I know you guys do much of this, if not most of this at cenovus, but how do you onboard all this stuff?

Anoop Warrier (18:46):
So if you think about onboarding itself, the traditional, so I'm going to go back to another traditional primary milestones that we have, which is the cadence of communication. So you have your emails go out, you have a direct mails go out and saying, how great is this company? And you need to come and bank with us. So over a 1690 day period, you have that onboarding journey. That's good, but it shouldn't end at that 1690 days. You got to keep continuing that over a period of time. Why is that? Because just by talking to a customer doesn't make any sense. So at Synovus we have this, if you think about your engaged personal finance features and your positioning as a financial partner, we have this wonderful product. We call it insights, right? It's a way for us to talk to a customer about how healthy is the customer's finances.

(19:36):
We nudge 'em, we guide them about saying, here's what we saw in your transactions last week, is this, okay? So you're getting a way for us to have a conversation normally with the client as they are going through the digital banking app. And that's what we are really trying to do. Engagement is a big part, right? Engagement is a big part. And Emmett mentioned about the value prop about why some of we have to do these things. So if you think about the alerts and notifications, think about the fraud that happens in our ecosystem today. And a lot of folks come in, we tell them about this is what you need to do. But really the important thing is why do you need to do that? So in this case, what we go down and say is the alerts are important because if something happens to your debit card, if something happens to your credit card, the alerts are really important for you to be engaged with so that what's going on with it, so to protect you, that's a really important part about it.

(20:33):
One last thing, what onboarding I'll add is the culture at Cenovus. It's been built in a way that in a lot of banks, and I'm certain you all see this thing, there's always a conflict, a channel conflict between digital and the brand channels. And I see you nodding over there, right? The way we have positioned this thing, going back to the thing that I mentioned about I am not just a digital guy, but I'm also the banker ally too. So we have formed this bond about saying, how do you work with the bankers a lot more? So not only are the digital clients happy, but the bankers are happy too. And the way we do this thing, it's reducing channel conflict is really what it is. So they are now going down the path of saying, how do I get more clients engaged in digital? Because guess why? On the banker scorecard, there is a metric that shows that for a certain branch, how many of your clients are enrolled in digital and they want to get those things up. So they're very, very enthused and they want to make sure this is the right thing to do. And so that's working for us. But again, that wouldn't happen unless we had this really tight relationship between the digital and the banker channels.

Emmett Higdon (21:46):
In Kurt, you made this point earlier, so it's a little bit repetitious here, but just showing some marketing stuff from you or from your site here I was taken by, you guys talk a lot in what's on your site about lifetime value of the customer. It's not just as Anoop was just referring to. It's growing that relationship over time with that customer. As that customer goes through different life stages, goes through different parts of their career, and you all talk about the value of the lifetime value of the data that you all provides. Maybe you can address why it's not just at the point of account opening where a lot of the data that you connect banks to, but throughout the customer's relationship with the bank, that can be helpful.

Kurtis Lin (22:30):
Yeah, there's actually one thing that I want to touch on. The last slide mentioned insights and Anoop did as well. And I think insights is obviously it's an extremely broad term, but let's just try to make it really concise here. So one thing that we do concretely today that a lot of our customers find value in is insights around a direct deposit. I think a lot of people falsely assume that if I have that consumer's direct deposit, I must be their primary bank. According to our data, which is across millions and millions of people who've processed direct deposit switches, 40%, 40 to 45% of them actually have multiple accounts that they direct deposit to. They're either splitting some into a checking, some into a savings, people pay alimony payments or loan payments with their direct deposits. It's very wide ranging. And so to assume that having a DD means your primary is a faulty assumption, and that's something that everybody assumes.

(23:30):
Now that you know that data point, what do you do about it? Well, the first thing is to understand where's the rest of that money actually going? And so one of the things that we provide is this DD insights tool that allows you to say, okay, we have 50% of it. The other 50, 50% is actually going to this other bank and pun point about a relationship. It allows you to then prompt to that consumer, Hey, we noticed that only half of it's coming here. We'd love to understand why do you have the other half of it going there? And often you hear it's because, well, I have my mortgage coming out of that bank so I keep it there to make sure I can pay off those payments or something like that. And it allows you to then have a conversation and say, well, what would it take for you to move your mortgage to us? And that's I think a very tactical use case where we talk about insights, but even just one specific data point like that can lead to a meaningful difference in how you engage with a customer and ultimately grow their lifetime value.

Emmett Higdon (24:25):
No, that's really powerful insight, powerful, powerful data to see where else that's going. That's a whole another report that Javelin had written talking about that very thing that you may only be seeing a thin slice with everything that you do with your employer today, all the different deductions that come from them. By the time that direct deposit gets to you, it might be a thin slice of what it started out as. And knowing that is really, really helpful. We know obviously to grow our relationships, we need to grow beyond that basic deposit account. Obviously you don't just want that customer's checking account, you want the credit card, you want the mortgage, you want the car loan, you want the home improvement loan. In my case for the last few years, I just moved into a fixer upper on Hilton Head Island a few years ago and you should see what my spending looks like at Home Depot.

(25:12):
But we know 55%. This again comes out of some research that folks at Pinwheel did that's available on their site. 55% of customers say, I don't get these other really valuable, really profitable services from my primary bank. That's no surprise for what is a little more disturbing than we find with an annual question that we ask on our consumer survey is we ask this of consumers, all the consumers who respond, we ask, who is your primary bank? And we ask 'em a whole bunch of questions about their primary bank. And then we say, in the last 12 months, have you turned to any other app, any provider outside your primary bank for any of these services? And these bars continue to grow year over year. It's as you all well know, don't have to tell you how easy it is just to go out and find a new provider and sign up for any of these services. Some of these should be very worrisome. If your customers are turning to save money, to borrow money, they're turning somewhere else other than you, that's obviously not a good thing. And when we ask a follow up question, then well, your bank offers these services in many cases. Why did you turn outside? Why did you look outside your primary bank for these? I liked it better. Certainly a big one.

(26:25):
I'm not getting that really wow factor from your app that I see from all those great fintechs out in the app store. But then Kurt and I have talked about this a few times, these should scare the hell out or would scare the hell out of me if I were a banker, if I were in your shoes, I wasn't sure if my bank offers this. And most worrisome of all, I didn't even consider my bank for this. Many of Javelin's clients are top 20, top 30 banks in the country. We get these questions all the time. WTF, we have all this stuff in our app. Why are customers, I remember the one about getting your credit score somewhere else. It was something like 20% of Bank of America respondents chose that and said, oh yeah, I go to Credit Karma to get my credit score.

(27:08):
It's right there in the app. Why are you not getting it? Certainly exploration is one factor. If all I'm thinking of you is as my transactional provider, I may not be digging down into that more. I dunno what the hell that more button means anyway. I may not be digging down to see all the other goodies that you have there. So how do we expose customers to all these? So let me throw it over to you, Anoop, talk a little bit about how do you guys respond to these criticisms, what do you do about it?

Anoop Warrier (27:41):
So criticism is the right word.

Emmett Higdon (27:43):
And in just a second, we're going to take, we will run a little bit over time I think, but we want to be sure to get some questions from you all. This is actually the last point that we'll be touching on that

Anoop Warrier (27:53):
First bullet point about I wasn't sure if my bank offers, it's an awareness issue is really what it is. And one of the things we are doing in a bank is we are being very intentional about what you want to put on your app. So I take an example of Microsoft Office. If you think about Excel, Excel has around 450 functions. How many do you all use? Maybe 50, 10%. That's what really happens when you go into a bank and you have all these functions that they have built over three or five years and you really can't find anything. It's there. You can't find anything. So what we are really doing is from a building standpoint, we are just making sure that the things that's relevant for the client is what's available at any point in time within the app. So that's number one. We also nudge the client about, Hey, did you know that we have this feature through tours, digital tours and everything else that we do from time to time to make them aware that this is always on and you have this at your disposal if you need it.

(28:51):
That's number one. The second piece is changing. So if you think about, I didn't even consider my bank for this. Listen, everybody will argue that banks are old, they're legacy, they're not as cool as a fintechs. We all get it. But the thing that we talk about in here is it's one is a lot of banks offer these things. I have seen banks that are offering BNPL solutions and everything else, and we also have, last year we won the JD Power for Southeast. And in 2024, our digital banking and mobile app, our scores went way up. So we are the cool people too, and we just want to let our clients know that these things are there and we have a way for you to use 'em too, understand the coolness of fintechs, but the evolution of capabilities and experience of banks, they are really, really coming up to par with all these fintechs are doing. So it's a matter of, again, education. It's a matter of continuously evolving and iterating through experiences is how we kind of go about it. And again, educating the clients all the time is what we want to do.

Emmett Higdon (29:59):
I'll throw this up. These are those two links that I mentioned. If you want to download those two research pieces, a lot of what went into today's session, go ahead and go ahead and snag these QR codes, but also let's open it up for questions if there are any today for any of the folks here. And I think, is there a microphone? We don't have a microphone in back. These are the only ones. That's alright. It's a small group. Just go ahead and shout it out if anybody has a question. But you work for pinwheel, go ahead, ask away.

Audience Member 1 (30:34):
Anoop. A lot of the people here. An you've been a change maker at multiple places that you've been at. A lot of the people that are here are also, they have an eye on change, but sometimes it's a matter of how do you begin to implement that change? Do you have any advice for the people that are here that want to maybe implement, maybe not necessarily pinwheel even some of the other things they've seen here? A couple words of advice for getting the ball rolling on that.

Anoop Warrier (31:01):
Yeah, listen, change for the reason of change is important. So great question by the way. So for any of our conversations at Enos, what do we put at the center is, is it going to positively impact the client? Is it going to positively impact the banker? If the answer to both of them are yes, then the conversations about change is an easy one because we are helping people, real people in here. So that's the way we kind of go about it. And of course the value for the financial value also needs to be there. And again, I don't believe in transformation just for the sake of transformation, even though we have to get there. But let's make sure that it has a financial impact, it has an experience impact, and the team member, the employee and the client are also impacted positively by it. So tough conversations are, I love doing that with people around me, but that's a path we kind of take, but the value is what really roots into it.

Emmett Higdon (32:00):
Okay, fine. That was a good question. Even if it came from a pinwheel person, in case anybody didn't notice, this is the QR code on screen right now. If you want a copy of the slides that we went through today, this is today's presentation. If you wanted to grab a copy of it to share with your teams back home. Any other questions?

Audience Member 2 (32:20):
Interest rates going up highest, they could grab something else probably. You tell them, we got this customer a rate chaser, what's the next best thing after the fact that they,

Emmett Higdon (32:50):
Yeah, if you're playing the rate game, that's a tough place to be in if that's the only thing. If you want to build on that, it's incredibly difficult to build on just being the hottest rate on the street because there's many, many tools out there. Some of them are really, really cool. Looking at it from a consumer perspective, there's fintechs out there who will happily automatically move your money around a dozen different banks across the country to get that higher rate. You don't even have to chase it yourself anymore. But if I'm one of those banks offering the highest rate on the street right now, what can I do? And lemme know if I'm summarizing this correctly for ANU because it may be a question more for you other than a high yield savings, which is hopefully we'll bring in a lot of deposits, which we all need more deposits today. What do I do next? If I've got that deposit? What in your experience has been the next best thing that I can offer to deepen that relationship?

Anoop Warrier (33:39):
The core of every client, what they're really trying to do is, can I make more money? Can I spend less? Right? At the end of the day, all they want is more money in their piggy bank. That's what they're looking for. A higher rate might get them the more money piece, but the guidance about how a bank with the thing, we have 250 branches with really good relationship advisors and the digital programs that we have, the insights that I mentioned to you that we have with person attics, those are the things that provide the additional value to the client other than just a rate chasing thing. So clients stick with us and they come to us even though we might not have the best rate because we want to make sure that there's more behind a banking than just your rate is really what it is. So it's a really value as to what we 5,000 folks at CNOs really provide to every client is really what it is.

Emmett Higdon (34:26):
And that's actually a really great point that you brought up. It may not be the next product beyond that. So I brought all my money to you. How much is all my money? Is it $2,000 that I'm trying to save to build a college education? Or is it $200,000 that I'm trying to save for retirement? Hopefully I'm not using your savings account to save for retirement. But in many cases it's what's the goal? Trying to understand, help the customer or understand from the customer what are they trying to do with that savings? Why are they here? Why are they bringing that money to you? And then helping them achieve that goal better might keep that money at least I would argue a bigger concern is keeping that money at you rather than like, okay, I got all that money from you, now I want something else.

(35:09):
Now I want a mortgage, now I want a card now I want something else with you. I'd be more concerned about just hanging onto that money that came in because of that high rate. If you can show other tools, other functionality that shows how to continually maximize that money or give them other insights for growing that money. This is why we did another whole report around automated savings programs, whether it's an algorithmic based program or whatever it may be. Ally does a really great job with this and there are different buckets and things that they call it. I forget if you go and just visit their site. There's a lot of information about it. They provide a lot of tools to the customer that kind of shows, Hey, we're looking out for you. We're helping you to grow your money. That kind of thing, particularly in a hot rate, in a hot rate environment can often help that money become a little stickier

Audience Member 3 (35:56):
It to I person, zero expectation other than Lose my Money.

Emmett Higdon (36:03):
That's a good place to start.

Audience Member 3 (36:05):
They,

Emmett Higdon (36:31):
It's no, it's going to vary from every bank, from one bank to another. Robinhood, they started out wanting your investment business. What do they want now? They want to sell you that credit card. And guess what? They've got a high yield savings product now. So folks like, why am I, I'm blanking on who they are, but the different P2P providers now, Venmo wants to be your high yield savings account. Now everybody's trying to get those additional sources of business. So much of it comes back to trust. Do I feel like a value customer to you? Do you prove through personalization and some of the other stuff that we've shown here, are you giving me any kinds of suggestions? The insights program that Anoop mentioned and the folks at Person who we have here with us at the table behind you are doing today?

(37:23):
That kind of thing is incredibly valuable just to show the customer that, yeah, we're here for you. We're a partner with you. We ask an annual question on our survey. Do you believe that the bank has your best interest in mind? We've been seeing those numbers go down the last couple of years, particularly when we ask mobile banking customers, because there's very little in mobile banking apps today, there's very little evidence that says, Hey, here's an insight. Here's something we're thinking about. Oh, by the way, this charge showed up twice. There's very little obvious evidence today in a lot of mobile banking apps that my bank seems to have my best interest at heart. So anyway, with that, we'll wrap up and say thank you so much. Thank you. Enjoy the rest of the show. Thank you.